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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 11:49:49 GMT
Does anyone know how the 4 day week trial is going as seems the unions have different versions to how it is
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 24, 2017 12:17:41 GMT
For those of us not "in the know" could someone also explain what the trial is?
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Post by punkman on Aug 24, 2017 13:05:16 GMT
The four day week trial was just that; a six month trial originally proposed by ASLEF at the three Jubilee line depots whereby volunteer drivers worked longer shifts over four days (i.e. working the same hours as the existing normal five day week). The main objection from the RMT was, I understand, the fact that it entailed shifts and driving times exceeding previously fought for and agreed parameters. I believe the six months are up in September, at which point the company was to review its success or otherwise before possibly rolling it out across the network. Quite what counts as a "success" I don't know, but I do know the uptake was initially poor, at least at the east end of the line. Word is there are mixed feelings both amongst those taking part and those not, one argument being that there were fewer long weekends for the five dayers who followed the roster.
My understanding is that ASLEF think it has been successful but RMT not. What the next step is I don't know, so watch this space.................
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Post by PiccNT on Aug 24, 2017 13:09:35 GMT
Basically it's trial on the Jubilee Line where T/Ops can opt to work a 4 day week instead of 5. Duties are a maximum of 9:30 and they receive an extra 44 days off per annum for working 1 day less. I think it's true to say that the two unions have different views on it. From what I've heard, the T/Ops on the trial seem to like it and at least one of the unions wishes the trial to be extended to other lines.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 24, 2017 15:31:31 GMT
If the unions can't agree with each other what hope is there for agreement with management‽
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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 15:57:14 GMT
RMT were never really in favour of it maybe as can't get similar deal for stations they balloted there T/op members before last pay deal to see wether to persue it was a close call 52 percent in favour if I recall
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Aug 24, 2017 21:11:21 GMT
Personally, I would understand why T/Ops not part of the trial wouldn't be happy. However I feel that the next step should be doing this to all T/Ops on the Jubilee so that there is a wider picture. Maybe they could record driver satisfaction / punctualities etc.
But then I feel that LUL might have to employ more T/Ops, an issue which I'm not too familiar with.
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Post by domh245 on Aug 24, 2017 21:45:19 GMT
But then I feel that LUL might have to employ more T/Ops, an issue which I'm not too familiar with. I must admit to wondering what effect this would have on the number of driving staff required, and whether or not there would be an increase in the number of drivers as a result. Drivers who would (in all likelihood) be one of the many direct entrants or Night Tube T/Ops and likely to join (or already be a member of) ASLEF. Perhaps that is why they are so keen on the idea. Am I being overly cynical? |
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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 22:50:22 GMT
But then I feel that LUL might have to employ more T/Ops, an issue which I'm not too familiar with. I must admit to wondering what effect this would have on the number of driving staff required, and whether or not there would be an increase in the number of drivers as a result. Drivers who would (in all likelihood) be one of the many direct entrants or Night Tube T/Ops and likely to join (or already be a member of) ASLEF. Perhaps that is why they are so keen on the idea. Am I being overly cynical? you wouldn't need any extra t/ops as they would still be doing the same ammount of hours as a five day week and not all t/ops want to do the longer daily hours so it's all voluntary |
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Aug 25, 2017 9:57:20 GMT
Ok. I didn't think of the fact that not all T/Ops would like it. Thanks for that!  |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 25, 2017 10:44:25 GMT
Ok. I didn't think of the fact that not all T/Ops would like it. Thanks for that! Me for one, I'm perfectly happy with 36 hours over five days rather than four |
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Post by banana99 on Aug 25, 2017 21:33:11 GMT
I would guess that one fewer commute would be a big factor is this...
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safpatel
Aspire to Inspire before you Expire!
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Post by safpatel on Sept 7, 2017 15:46:27 GMT
Do we have anymore details on this? I would like to see this rolled out across the combine. It's a volunteer based scheme so those who it would suit should be given the chance to work the 4 day week. Has anybody got a copy of the Jubilee line trial roster for the 4 day week?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 8, 2017 4:53:52 GMT
ASLEF are balloting members for action over management's failure to progress any of the proposals agreed under the last pay deal
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 11:45:45 GMT
Personally, I would understand why T/Ops not part of the trial wouldn't be happy. However I feel that the next step should be doing this to all T/Ops on the Jubilee so that there is a wider picture. Maybe they could record driver satisfaction / punctualities etc. But then I feel that LUL might have to employ more T/Ops, an issue which I'm not too familiar with. I wouldn't be happy with a 4 day week, as most drivers aren't (yes, I speak to them). the 4 day week proposal was made by an ASLEF functional council member who also happens to be a jubilee line driver too, the feedback being given to ASLEF is being given by another ASLEF rep who 'volunteered' to be a part of the trials and has spent most of his time doing things other than driving, so his feedback is positive cause he's not doing a great deal of work. Those others who volunteered in the most detest the 4 day week and want off of it, it's these drivers who the RMT are trying to make heard, they want back to normal rosters, but it's the baby of this particular functional rep and it is he who is fighting to last to keep the remnants of the 4 day week alive. I'm perfectly happy with what I'm currently doing, I don't want to work less days, but if others do, then it's great that they can be catered for 😀 |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 11:47:16 GMT
I would guess that one fewer commute would be a big factor is this... Not really 😉 |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 11:59:15 GMT
..........Quite what counts as a "success" I don't know, but I do know the uptake was initially poor, at least at the east end of the line. Word is there are mixed feelings both amongst those taking part and those not, one argument being that there were fewer long weekends for the five dayers who followed the roster. My understanding is that ASLEF think it has been successful but RMT not. What the next step is I don't know, so watch this space................. One of the selling points by the particular TFC rep to the drivers on his line was a thu/fri/sat/sun/mon/tue rest day break, which lo and behold, never materialised. In effect, it would be 6 days off every couple months as a 'long weekend' off on a 4 day week is a 6 day weekend. There is no 'long weekend' off and this has pi***d a number of people off, by a number of accounts, there's fewer weekends off than there are on the 5 day week. Another factor is movement between the the link rosters, if a driver opts for a 4 day week, they may find themselves stuck there when they find they want to move back to a 5 day week. Personally, knowing the 'players' involved in the ASLEF decisions here, it's a case of an individual wanting to make a name for themselves and using the 4 day week as a way of bettering their position within the union, but moreover, if he doesn't rise further in the union, then his feathered his bed for a senior management position. |
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:23:31 GMT
..........Quite what counts as a "success" I don't know, but I do know the uptake was initially poor, at least at the east end of the line. Word is there are mixed feelings both amongst those taking part and those not, one argument being that there were fewer long weekends for the five dayers who followed the roster. My understanding is that ASLEF think it has been successful but RMT not. What the next step is I don't know, so watch this space................. One of the selling points by the particular TFC rep to the drivers on his line was a thu/fri/sat/sun/mon/tue rest day break, which lo and behold, never materialised. In effect, it would be 6 days off every couple months as a 'long weekend' off on a 4 day week is a 6 day weekend. There is no 'long weekend' off and this has pi***d a number of people off, by a number of accounts, there's fewer weekends off than there are on the 5 day week. Another factor is movement between the the link rosters, if a driver opts for a 4 day week, they may find themselves stuck there when they find they want to move back to a 5 day week. Personally, knowing the 'players' involved in the ASLEF decisions here, it's a case of an individual wanting to make a name for themselves and using the 4 day week as a way of bettering their position within the union, but moreover, if he doesn't rise further in the union, then his feathered his bed for a senior management position. just looked at rotas and there is no less weekends off if anything the 4 day week gets more off and definitely more sundays off.. there are 2 five day long weekends but no 6 day ones but nothing is stopping anyone changing their rest days around Also for those that don't like nights there is no nights on the 4 day week how does a four day week help someone get a senior management position ? |
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:24:30 GMT
I would guess that one fewer commute would be a big factor is this... Not really 😉 Really i thought that would be a big factor if you got hour commute thats 2 hours less travelling a week |
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:25:46 GMT
Has anybody got a copy of the Jubilee line trial roster for the 4 day week? yes but don't think i would be allowed to post it on here |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:32:19 GMT
Really i thought that would be a big factor if you got hour commute thats 2 hours less travelling a week I have a personal life, a 4 day week would mean cancelling most of it and I'm not willing to do that. The things I want to do I wouldn't be able to. Work to live, not live to work |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:34:14 GMT
One of the selling points by the particular TFC rep to the drivers on his line was a thu/fri/sat/sun/mon/tue rest day break, which lo and behold, never materialised. In effect, it would be 6 days off every couple months as a 'long weekend' off on a 4 day week is a 6 day weekend. There is no 'long weekend' off and this has pi***d a number of people off, by a number of accounts, there's fewer weekends off than there are on the 5 day week. Another factor is movement between the the link rosters, if a driver opts for a 4 day week, they may find themselves stuck there when they find they want to move back to a 5 day week. Personally, knowing the 'players' involved in the ASLEF decisions here, it's a case of an individual wanting to make a name for themselves and using the 4 day week as a way of bettering their position within the union, but moreover, if he doesn't rise further in the union, then his feathered his bed for a senior management position. just looked at rotas and there is no less weekends off if anything the 4 day week gets more off and definitely more sundays off.. there are 2 five day long weekends but no 6 day ones but nothing is stopping anyone changing their rest days around Also for those that don't like nights there is no nights on the 4 day week how does a four day week help someone get a senior management position ? But if there was only the 4 day week, then of course there would be nights. So what do you do, 4 or 5? As for the senior management position, don't think of it as arguing a 4 day week getting it, more like doing favours, just look at the previous upgrades THSC rep who got a senior management position for favours, or the previous EC member who immediately became a senior ER manager on losing the election against the current EC member TW. There are already signs the rep will end up there 😉 |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:39:23 GMT
Has anybody got a copy of the Jubilee line trial roster for the 4 day week? yes but don't think i would be allowed to post it on here Nope, def no no 😉 |
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:39:37 GMT
just looked at rotas and there is no less weekends off if anything the 4 day week gets more off and definitely more sundays off.. there are 2 five day long weekends but no 6 day ones but nothing is stopping anyone changing their rest days around Also for those that don't like nights there is no nights on the 4 day week how does a four day week help someone get a senior management position ? But if there was only the 4 day week, then of course there would be nights. So what do you do, 4 or 5? yes there would be then but the idea has always been voluntary so can't see it being all 4 day week as there seems to be about a 50 /50 split of those that want to do it and those that want to stay on 5 day week personally i would love a 4 day week |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:45:52 GMT
But if there was only the 4 day week, then of course there would be nights. So what do you do, 4 or 5? yes there would be then but the idea has always been voluntary so can't see it being all 4 day week as there seems to be about a 50 /50 split of those that want to do it and those that want to stay on 5 day week personally i would love a 4 day week I agree it should be voluntary, but not a trap. I may need to do a 4 day week at some stage, why shouldn't I be allowed to dip into the link for that period of time? If I chose the 4 day week, and needed a fortnight of shorter duties, thus a 5 day week, why can't I swap out? It wouldn't be practical, of course, but to me as a union activist, that would be the ideal objective, NOT separate link rosters, accommodating needs. |
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:48:36 GMT
Are you at Stratford depot?
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:49:17 GMT
Really i thought that would be a big factor if you got hour commute thats 2 hours less travelling a week I have a personal life, a 4 day week would mean cancelling most of it and I'm not willing to do that. The things I want to do I wouldn't be able to. Work to live, not live to work you would have a extra day to live and not work cant see how working extra hour or 2 a day would cancel your personal life its not like that its working a 12 hour day like some jobs |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 8, 2017 12:49:21 GMT
<<Polite Mod Reminder>>
Multiple posting i.e. repeated consecutive posts by the same member is not encouraged on this forum, as it makes the threads hard to follow.
If you want to add something to what you have just posted, please edit your previous post.
Drainrat and nig, feel free to use the private message function if you want to have this kind of chat.
Thanks.
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Post by drainrat on Sept 8, 2017 12:54:42 GMT
I have a personal life, a 4 day week would mean cancelling most of it and I'm not willing to do that. The things I want to do I wouldn't be able to. Work to live, not live to work you would have a extra day to live and not work cant see how working extra hour or 2 a day would cancel your personal life its not like that its working a 12 hour day like some jobs Trust me, it would, the things I do start from around 15.30, there is no way I would be able to make these mon-fri on increased hours mon-fri, especially when I have the opportunity to finish by 10.30am a number of days on 5 day week |
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Post by stapler on Sept 8, 2017 14:24:08 GMT
I once used to work a 4-day week for Camden LBC in the early 70s. It really threw me, and the phasing of free time with friends was impossible!
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