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Post by jimbo on Aug 22, 2020 20:46:53 GMT
Correct as a system they proposed to automate both Upminster and Ealing Common Depots can not deal with the thru put required when trains are entering and leaving service. So for the time being the shunters will remain in place in both depots hmm, I read this as automation still not being as good as human control. I could begin to think about other locations with busy / complicated pointwork too! Most of the line upgrades have found a major difficulty in getting trains in and out of service fast enough, especially before the morning peak. Jubilee at Neasden has been a recent project. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 23, 2020 21:27:54 GMT
Thanks, but why can't the computers cope?
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Post by jimbo on Sept 13, 2020 23:36:22 GMT
Still unpowered except the final points onto running line, east and west cabins remain with no plans to change these arrangements. Correct as a system they proposed to automate both Upminster and Ealing Common Depots can not deal with the thru put required when trains are entering and leaving service. So for the time being the shunters will remain in place in both depots Following an Ealing west-end depot derailment in 2017, it was noted that 4LM will require stabling at three-minute intervals rather than current four-minute. Signalling at west end of depot would cost £15m, but would benefit only three trains, whose earlier stabling would be at a cost of £3m more, so did not meet investment value hurdle. In any case alternative out-stabling at Ealing Broadway might be possible. |
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 14, 2020 19:42:20 GMT
Thanks. It sort of makes sense, especially financially.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 15, 2020 8:08:42 GMT
Correct as a system they proposed to automate both Upminster and Ealing Common Depots can not deal with the thru put required when trains are entering and leaving service. So for the time being the shunters will remain in place in both depots Following an Ealing west-end depot derailment in 2017, it was noted that 4LM will require stabling at three-minute intervals rather than current four-minute. Signalling at west end of depot would cost £15m, but would benefit only three trains, whose earlier stabling would be at a cost of £3m more, so did not meet investment value hurdle. In any case alternative out-stabling at Ealing Broadway might be possible. I hope 4LM & Picc Upgrade are talking, as both look to outstable at Ealing Broadway! 4LM can't get trains back into Ealing Depot fast enough at day's end. Picc Upgrade can't get enough trains from Northfields Depot via Acton Town reversal for morning peak service from Ealing Broadway and Uxbridge. Picc are looking to relay former Central line interchange sidings at Ealing for outstabling, disused since opening of Ruislip siding and lifted in more recent years. South Harrow sidings expansion is also planned for Uxbridge line start-up. Ruislip depot was built to serve Central and Picc lines 70 year back, but the Picc space has since been used for engineer's trains and no room remains! Uxbridge sidings are full of Met trains, with just a single Picc remaining. |
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Post by philthetube on Sept 15, 2020 10:46:45 GMT
and the single pic does not get into the depot a Uxbridge, but is stabled in the platform.
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vincenture
Quiz tryhard, and an advocate for simpler, less complicated rail routes
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Post by vincenture on Sept 22, 2020 2:26:28 GMT
I recently sent an FOI request to TfL regarding selective door operation. It seems that they have reduced the number of door cut-offs, and they are planning to remove 3 more because of less equipment for ATO. SDO SSR |
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Sept 22, 2020 10:20:41 GMT
I am sorry if my previous reply looked a little vague, but the link on the second line is directed to my imgur posts of TfL's reply with the document but I could not get a link for the entire document so I took pictures instead. Thanks!
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vincenture
Quiz tryhard, and an advocate for simpler, less complicated rail routes
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Post by vincenture on Sept 22, 2020 11:49:41 GMT
Quoting from the TfL Website Track Closure Thread:
Looks like SMA3 won't be ready until March 2021...
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 22, 2020 12:11:38 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 23, 2020 22:47:21 GMT
This was recently posted on a railgen site.
Of course times and dates are subject to change.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 24, 2020 0:26:01 GMT
Awww, they included the year; bless.
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Post by d7666 on Nov 30, 2020 18:43:04 GMT
There was still a plan last year to convert Edgware Road to Electric points this year. As you can see, nothing has come of it. I think the 'high speed points' is a bit of a misnomer, the site constraints have always meant the track designers are essentially limited in what they can provide and the switch lengths weren't going to be massively different, just in flat bottom rather than bullhead, and with Electric point machines rather than pneumatic. Presumably though as long as pneumatic points are retained then the air main has to stay, which must be an aging liability asset ? Or is [was?] there a plan to go over to local compressors ? Apart from points and trainstops, and [?] V-frames [is that where their air comes from ?] there are no other devices the air main supplies are there ? Do depots have a compressed air supply off the air main for pneumatic tools, a lot of workshops in general [outside of railway] do use air. |
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Post by d7666 on Nov 30, 2020 18:47:07 GMT
Awww, they included the year; bless.  |
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Nov 30, 2020 20:03:55 GMT
There was still a plan last year to convert Edgware Road to Electric points this year. As you can see, nothing has come of it. I think the 'high speed points' is a bit of a misnomer, the site constraints have always meant the track designers are essentially limited in what they can provide and the switch lengths weren't going to be massively different, just in flat bottom rather than bullhead, and with Electric point machines rather than pneumatic. Presumably though as long as pneumatic points are retained then the air main has to stay, which must be an aging liability asset ? Or is [was?] there a plan to go over to local compressors ? Apart from points and trainstops, and [?] V-frames [is that where their air comes from ?] there are no other devices the air main supplies are there ? Do depots have a compressed air supply off the air main for pneumatic tools, a lot of workshops in general [outside of railway] do use air. There is no plan to replace the air main as far as I'm aware. Programme Machines required an air supply (until the rolls were replaced by electronic units) and the older UTS style ticket gates also use the air main. |
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Post by d7666 on Dec 1, 2020 16:01:34 GMT
Presumably though as long as pneumatic points are retained then the air main has to stay, which must be an aging liability asset ? Or is [was?] there a plan to go over to local compressors ? Apart from points and trainstops, and [?] V-frames [is that where their air comes from ?] there are no other devices the air main supplies are there ? Do depots have a compressed air supply off the air main for pneumatic tools, a lot of workshops in general [outside of railway] do use air. There is no plan to replace the air main as far as I'm aware. Programme Machines required an air supply (until the rolls were replaced by electronic units) and the older UTS style ticket gates also use the air main. Thanks. That was news to me that any ticket gates were even pneumatic never mind off the air main! Now I know that though, it does seem an obvious way to have done it. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 1, 2020 16:57:11 GMT
Very few remaining and I believe a programme has begun to remove those that remain - they’re the original, clunky and large UTS gates, often accompanied by a ‘psshh-clunk’.
Without straying too off topic, Euston Square and GPS are both two stations on the SSR that have been resignalled and retain P-gates. 😅😂
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Post by d7666 on Dec 1, 2020 20:51:14 GMT
Very few remaining and I believe a programme has begun to remove those that remain - they’re the original, clunky and large UTS gates, often accompanied by a ‘psshh-clunk’. Without straying too off topic, Euston Square and GPS are both two stations on the SSR that have been resignalled and retain P-gates. 😅😂 Thanks! Really, I never knew that about gates. But didn't ever think about it, I'm afraid ticket gates really are not in interests scope nor work domain. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 21:49:25 GMT
Very few remaining and I believe a programme has begun to remove those that remain - they’re the original, clunky and large UTS gates, often accompanied by a ‘psshh-clunk’. Without straying too off topic, Euston Square and GPS are both two stations on the SSR that have been resignalled and retain P-gates. 😅😂 Earls Court still has them fed from the air main |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 16:41:29 GMT
This was recently posted on a railgen site. Of course times and dates are subject to change. Are theses dates still correct? I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve slipped. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 7, 2021 17:09:17 GMT
We are indeed holding an operational proving weekend for the SMA3 area (Stepney Green to Monument & Euston Square) this coming Saturday and Sunday.
SMA3 go live is still planned to be March but is subject to ongoing consultation regarding how it will done as District line train operators cannot be supported in the same way as other line's were when they went live on their first sections due to the current Covid situation.
I would question our ability to bring in SMA4 (Monument to Sloane Square) during April as we need to get all District line train operators up to speed in SMA3 first - that will be a challenge not only due to however the support will be provided using a limited Instructor Operator resource, but also absences due to annual leave and those isolating, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 17:20:22 GMT
At least SMA4 is far easier then any of the others for the District
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 9, 2021 12:35:05 GMT
So far so good......
The District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines are currently running trains (empty) to a timetable in the SMA3 area (Euston Square to Stepney Green & Monument) as part of this weekend’s operational proving.
This is not system testing as such - that has already been done by test train operators - but rather it’s about proving that the final product can happily run a train service to a timetable.
Providing the system continues to give us no bother, and subject to union agreement on how we’re gonna support drivers, go live should be happening in March....
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Jan 9, 2021 17:43:33 GMT
Is there any news on how speeds or journey times have improved with the testing? maybe for the exception of junctions, but for up to SMA2 it seems to be faster on the loop, roughly no difference between Finchley Road and Baker Street tho.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 9, 2021 18:28:14 GMT
The SMA3 area, at least on the District side, is generally a low speed area so there won’t be any noticeable difference.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Jan 9, 2021 18:36:19 GMT
The SMA3 area, at least on the District side, is generally a low speed area so there won’t be any noticeable difference. I suppose we can wait for SMA7 for speed |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 9, 2021 18:51:12 GMT
A speed increase between Kings Cross and Farringdon would be great - altho' perhaps only of benefit at quieter times when the risk of catching up with the train in front is less likely.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 9, 2021 20:14:07 GMT
I suppose we can wait for SMA7 for speed Switching to ATO (Automatic Train Operation) is not about increasing speeds. The maximum line speed is whatever it is on a given piece of track and does not change just because the signalling system has. The benefit of ATO is that it can safely run trains closer together and brake later than a human would dare to thus it maximises capacity in a way that we can’t achieve with fixed block colour light signalling and the variety of slow, medium and fast drivers - humans will all drive differently whereas a computer will drive the same way consistently every time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 22:15:34 GMT
Looking at the closure page it looks like the go live weekend is the 6th and 7th is that right, can you expand on what’s actually happening it not a simple closure on that weekend?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 9, 2021 22:34:17 GMT
Yep, go live is currently planned for 6th & 7th March.
As far as the general public are concerned the line will be advertised as closed due to planned engineering works between X and Y. In reality we will actually be running the full normal Saturday & Sunday timetables.
On the Saturday trains will run out of service through the SMA3 area. Now exactly where they’ll tip out & go back into service is yet to decided. Logic would suggest Mile End & Embankment on the District line side of things but I’ve worked on LU long enough to know logic rarely plays any part in proceedings. I note on the closures list it shows as closed Stepney to Monument. That’ll be a pain if that’s the case (turfing passengers off whilst also migrating the trains) but it wouldn’t surprise me.
The Sunday will start off out of service as per the Saturday, but at some point (around midday if previous go live’s are anything to go by) a decision will be made that we’re definitely sticking with ATO and the closed stations will open & trains will enter service.
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