DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
|
Post by DWS on Nov 29, 2019 0:56:38 GMT
Please everyone accept my apologies if I have upset people over my postings about the Parsons Green desk in the Earls Court Control Room.
My only concern was for the staff was that they would be required to work in an IMR which was not designed for staff to work in on a full time, long period of degraded working if the Earls Court Control Room was closed until all signalling had been transferred to the 4LM site at Hammersmith.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Nov 29, 2019 21:01:19 GMT
Yes what a great idea to operate the Parsons Green area by working the two IMRs, four members of staff on each of the three shifts. Keeping the Earls Court Control Room , it only needs one member of staff to work the desk, plus it has a mess room, toilets etc, unlike the two IMRs at Parsons Green. The PG panel used to be located in the train crew lobby, behind the station master's signing-on desk. the duty SMs were trained to operate it in emergency, as was the DI (divisional Inspector, later called area Manager). From memory it was usually controlled by th programme machine with equipment located in the old signal box on the e/b platform. It was continually manned by an AET (Automatic Equipment Technician). It seemed to work well. |
|
|
|
Post by coyote on Nov 29, 2019 21:12:59 GMT
Yes what a great idea to operate the Parsons Green area by working the two IMRs, four members of staff on each of the three shifts. Keeping the Earls Court Control Room , it only needs one member of staff to work the desk, plus it has a mess room, toilets etc, unlike the two IMRs at Parsons Green. The PG panel used to be located in the train crew lobby, behind the station master's signing-on desk. the duty SMs were trained to operate it in emergency, as was the DI (divisional Inspector, later called area Manager). From memory it was usually controlled by th programme machine with equipment located in the old signal box on the e/b platform. It was continually manned by an AET (Automatic Equipment Technician). It seemed to work well. The panel at Parsons Green was for automatic shunting around and in and out of the sidings. At the start of each day the panel would be set up up with the train numbers that were stabled in each siding, when the train number matched the program machine, the correct route would clear for the train. |
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Nov 29, 2019 23:54:31 GMT
Whilst we are on the topic of Parsons Green, are there any track layout changes due there in advance of CBTC rollout?
I did ask a Thales sales rep once about how their product behaves in complex areas, he got very cross when I’d inadvertently highlighted the limitations of their product!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 30, 2019 7:34:27 GMT
Whilst we are on the topic of Parsons Green, are there any track layout changes due there in advance of CBTC rollout? Changes at PG are due but whether they will be implemented before CBTC I doubt, as the Embankment/Westminster and Barking changes are not happening before. They will sever the link from eastbound platform into 21-22 roads, and vice-versa. Trains to/from 21-22 will have to use westbound platform. A new diamond crossover further west of the station will allow access from Wimbledon into westbound platform and 28 road, trains could also start from eastbound platform to Wimbledon. |
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on Nov 30, 2019 11:30:57 GMT
Whilst we are on the topic of Parsons Green, are there any track layout changes due there in advance of CBTC rollout? Changes at PG are due but whether they will be implemented before CBTC I doubt, as the Embankment/Westminster and Barking changes are not happening before. They will sever the link from eastbound platform into 21-22 roads, and vice-versa. Trains to/from 21-22 will have to use westbound platform. A new diamond crossover further west of the station will allow access from Wimbledon into westbound platform and 28 road, trains could also start from eastbound platform to Wimbledon. Is that link being removed because no train can enter EB service from 21 & 22? |
|
|
|
Post by t697 on Nov 30, 2019 12:01:53 GMT
Whilst we are on the topic of Parsons Green, are there any track layout changes due there in advance of CBTC rollout? Changes at PG are due but whether they will be implemented before CBTC I doubt, as the Embankment/Westminster and Barking changes are not happening before. They will sever the link from eastbound platform into 21-22 roads, and vice-versa. Trains to/from 21-22 will have to use westbound platform. A new diamond crossover further west of the station will allow access from Wimbledon into westbound platform and 28 road, trains could also start from eastbound platform to Wimbledon. I don't think those changes currently have funding do they? |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 4, 2019 21:42:03 GMT
This evening the BBC1 TV local news for London had a feature on the chaos on the Metropolitan line. The way people are having their lives messed up is really dire.
Will it ever work? Will similar delays be experienced when the next SMA's go live?
It also makes me 'very alarmed' at what might happen if SelTrac is ever even mooted for the Central line. At present this line uses an older system - but it works! Indeed, if it was my money I'd rather see the present system installed on the new Central line trains, just to ensure minimum inconvenience to passengers.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Dec 4, 2019 22:27:40 GMT
spsmiler , Of course it will work, the product has a truly global presence in rapid transit, the only differences lie with the managed implementation of said product. To me personally, the Metropolitan line saga suggests that the lessons from the Jubilee lines tenuous conversion to ATO haven't been learned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 22:44:57 GMT
Again TBTC and CBTC are different animals in the way they communicate with the trains and back to the central control room.
You can not compare anything that’s happened on the Jubilee or Northern lines to SSL.
Another thing to note SelTrac is a Thales system and has been in use since the 1980’s where as Westrace is a Westinghouse system and has been in use since the 90’s. The central line was far from trouble free in the beginning, there will always be “ snags “ to contend with yes Thales could of done better but testing in real life is very limited.
They didn’t just walk along the track and said let’s say every 100m we will stick up an antenna, they did radio surveys and walked the whole line more then once to try and get the optimal range available. Trouble is the tunnels aren’t straight and other factors come into consideration. The WiFi be it abit more secure then your general house set up is essentially the same set up just on a much bigger scale and we all know that dead spots despite all you try to do to mitigate against this still occurs.
I’m sure the boffins in this country and Canada are working on this 24/7 to try and sort this issue out it may take time but will be worth it when it rolls out.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Dec 4, 2019 22:54:49 GMT
@aetearlscourt, I wasn't trying to give attention to the crucks of the signaling system per say, more the management decision that was taken to deal with these flaws "beyond the point of no return".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 23:05:53 GMT
Someone at some point has to stick there head above the water and say let’s go for it at some point. I’m sure there was lots of conversations from both sides before they attempted to commission the signalling.
There is lots and lots of paperwork which needs to be signed from LU and Thales, without this the system can not be commissioned for revenue traffic
I do agree the training element of SelTrac be it from a Train Op, Signaller or us as the asset owner / maintainer was all done last minute and the early staff who got trained there was nothing to keep the skills up / competence going. There isn’t much can be done now but just to keep the faith that eventually it will work correctly.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Dec 5, 2019 0:00:27 GMT
The next area SMA3 involves all District line staff and all S7 trains for the first time, so hopefully less problems in light of experiences on the Met. line. After that each area will only have to cope with its own peculiarities, with staff already experienced, so hopefully commissionings can start to speed up.
|
|
ijmad
Posts: 351
Member is Online
|
Post by ijmad on Dec 5, 2019 0:06:45 GMT
I heard SMA3 is now indefinitely delayed?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 5, 2019 5:25:20 GMT
I heard SMA3 is now indefinitely delayed? Still on for 22/23 February 2020 |
|
|
|
Post by jonathanlondon on Dec 7, 2019 15:31:56 GMT
On the 18th November, TfL emailed Met line customers saying "Two software updates are scheduled for late this month and for mid-January next year, which we are confident will improve the situation."
Has the first update been deployed? The problems I experienced on the Met this week were outside SMA02 area.
Thanks.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
|
Post by Tom on Dec 7, 2019 21:34:08 GMT
On the 18th November, TfL emailed Met line customers saying "Two software updates are scheduled for late this month and for mid-January next year, which we are confident will improve the situation." Has the first update been deployed? The problems I experienced on the Met this week were outside SMA02 area. Thanks.
Not yet - there is discussion about it being deployed before Christmas however. |
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Dec 16, 2019 19:09:23 GMT
SMA3 go live has officially been postponed.
New date yet to be set.
Before anyone asks, I imagine it’ll be some time before a new date is set and publicised owning to the steps that need to climbed first. Measures are being put in place over the next few weeks to try and improve reliability in SMA’s 1&2 - this needs to prove itself before moving forward......
|
|
|
|
Post by d7666 on Dec 19, 2019 15:35:42 GMT
SMA3 go live has officially been postponed. New date yet to be set. Before anyone asks, I imagine it’ll be some time before a new date is set and publicised owning to the steps that need to climbed first. Measures are being put in place over the next few weeks to try and improve reliability in SMA’s 1&2 - this needs to prove itself before moving forward...... I thought I read the official line as "paused" to "reflect over challenges". |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 16:25:22 GMT
There is a major core software update coming just the other side of the new year and its hoping it will sort most of the gremlins. With that said they want further testing to make sure whats currently happening more in SMA2 doesn’t affect SMA3
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Dec 19, 2019 18:49:35 GMT
A recent notice to staff listed at least 13 areas of improvement being pursued, some of which cannot be implemented before the “Spring”. Whether SMA3 awaits all of these to be safe is unknown to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 20, 2019 0:10:24 GMT
I cannot say that I am surprised that SMA3 has been delayed, especially as the introduction of SMA2 was extremely difficult - especially for the passengers.
Lets hope that the rest of the project has a much smoother introduction.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 9:23:28 GMT
A lot of the faults are at migration boundaries the further CBTC gets the better it will become.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Dec 20, 2019 16:03:12 GMT
My impression is it’s more like 50/50.
There have certainly been boundary issues but equally there’s been a lot of issues at Edgware Road and Baker Street platforms.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Dec 20, 2019 16:14:21 GMT
Lets hope that the rest of the project has a much smoother introduction. I’ll be extremely surprised if SMA3 goes smoothly for the District line. Like the Met, our Instructor Operator resource is going to be very stretched during the first week or so....... Remember that we currently still have full Instructor Operator support at Paddington. That may or may not still be the case come SMA3 go live - let’s just say there is an ongoing dialogue between management & Unions and leave it at that to save any strife within the workplace. Whatever happens, west end District line drivers will never be signed off at Paddington/Edgware Road so all District line drivers will need to complete their minimum six trips with an Instructor Operator on SMA3. Expect the worst and anything else will be a bonus..... |
|
|
|
Post by jonathanlondon on Jan 9, 2020 23:27:55 GMT
There is a major core software update coming just the other side of the new year and its hoping it will sort most of the gremlins. With that said they want further testing to make sure whats currently happening more in SMA2 doesn’t affect SMA3 Has the upgrade happened yet? Thanks. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:15:44 GMT
I wouldn’t know and not heard anything as yet
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Jan 10, 2020 12:43:34 GMT
Equally nothing known on the trains side either.
We're only 10 days into 2020. Unfortunately nobody knows at the moment when there might news of progress but I'm sure it will posted on here when there is something to share.......
|
|
|
|
Post by d7666 on Jan 13, 2020 16:02:31 GMT
I wouldn’t know and not heard anything as yet Also deferred AIUI. |
|
|
|
Post by scheduler on Jan 16, 2020 1:16:46 GMT
No updates of revised plans have reached us.
|
|
