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Post by trt on Feb 20, 2017 8:07:56 GMT
** Night Tube drivers balloted over strikes ** Drivers on the Night Tube are to be balloted over strike action as part of a long-running dispute over pay. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39025868 Report doesn't say which union and I can't find any detail on a driver strike on the main union sites. Is this misreported? |
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Post by chris11256 on Feb 20, 2017 8:20:26 GMT
Article said RMT are balloting.
Edit: Aslef are now balloting as well. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 20, 2017 9:39:08 GMT
** Night Tube drivers balloted over strikes ** Drivers on the Night Tube are to be balloted over strike action as part of a long-running dispute over pay. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39025868 Report doesn't say which union and I can't find any detail on a driver strike on the main union sites. Is this misreported? For a 'brand new service' how can you have a 'long running dispute?' Surely the Ts&Cs and pay scales were known to the drivers before the service began? Or are TFL making the rules up as they go along.? |
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Post by chris11256 on Feb 20, 2017 9:58:52 GMT
I think the dispute is about progression to full time. RMT say it's unfair that night tube drivers have to wait 18 months before applying for a fill time role. Plus not being eligible for overtime, as night tube drivers are only contracted for 16 hours a week.
That's what the article says anyway.
At least with the moving to full time, the initial job advert was clear that you'd need to wait 18 months before moving. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 20, 2017 10:32:00 GMT
I think the dispute is about progression to full time. RMT say it's unfair that night tube drivers have to wait 18 months before applying for a fill time role. Plus not being eligible for overtime, as night tube drivers are only contracted for 16 hours a week.
That's what the article says anyway.
At least with the moving to full time, the initial job advert was clear that you'd need to wait 18 months before moving. No Tube drivers are eligible for overtime, we only get overtime if we finish late due to signal failure, one under, etc |
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Post by chris11256 on Feb 20, 2017 11:08:43 GMT
I think the dispute is about progression to full time. RMT say it's unfair that night tube drivers have to wait 18 months before applying for a fill time role. Plus not being eligible for overtime, as night tube drivers are only contracted for 16 hours a week.
That's what the article says anyway.
At least with the moving to full time, the initial job advert was clear that you'd need to wait 18 months before moving. No Tube drivers are eligible for overtime, we only get overtime if we finish late due to signal failure, one under, etc Thanks for clarifying. The article has since been reworded, but it read like only Night tube drivers don't get overtime. |
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Post by trt on Feb 20, 2017 11:17:13 GMT
The article is changing and updating. When I originally posted from the train (hence the spelling error in the thread title - sausage fingers), the details on the BBC website were almost non-existent. But it seemed bizarre to me that it could be described as "long-running".
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Post by SunSeeker on Feb 20, 2017 11:39:45 GMT
3 years with the company on Stations and I've always supported every strike and believed it had to be done.
This one though I can't agree with. RMT have got it wrong.
No sympathy for NT tOps, they knew it was 18 months no going FT when they applied.
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Post by brooklynbound on Feb 20, 2017 12:04:19 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 20, 2017 12:33:56 GMT
3 years with the company on Stations and I've always supported every strike and believed it had to be done. This one though I can't agree with. RMT have got it wrong. No sympathy for NT tOps, they knew it was 18 months no going FT when they applied. Yeah I've just checked back to my blog from 30 December 2015, apparently I wrote "18 months before being allowed to apply for full time vacancies or change depots". Of course I could have been mistaken, I quite often am..... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 12:55:29 GMT
It's correct, we were told 18 months when we applied but the issue is we were also told that Night Tube will be the line of progression into full time Train Op. TfL are now hiring and even started training people for full time roles and because they are looking to recruit so many of them then us drivers who are already trained won't get full time for many many years. There are ex station staff who went for part time Train Op seeing it as a stepping stone into full time Train Op and are now being leapfrogged by anyone in TfL, including part time CSAs and dial-a-ride drivers.
The issue with overtime is that at the moment full time drivers get paid at an enhanced rate for anything worked over 36 hours a week and as we have to do 36 hours before getting that rate, we will only ever get paid flat rate for the same work a full time Train Op will get enhanced rate for (service disruption etc).
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Post by countryman on Feb 20, 2017 12:59:36 GMT
Sorry! Could an admin correct the spelling in the heading please!
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Post by trt on Feb 20, 2017 12:59:49 GMT
... the issue is we were also told that Night Tube will be the line of progression into full time Train Op. ... Do you have documentary evidence to back that up? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 13:02:56 GMT
... the issue is we were also told that Night Tube will be the line of progression into full time Train Op. ... Do you have documentary evidence to back that up? I'm not home at the moment so cannot check but every driver is in agreement that this is what we were told. |
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 20, 2017 13:27:52 GMT
“If I am successful in getting the part time role is there the possibility of me transferring to full time?
Your contract will be for 15 hours per week working Friday and Saturday nights. Normally you
must stay in the part time role for a minimum of 18 months before becoming eligible to apply to
transfer to a full time role. There may be opportunities dependant (sic) on business requirement to
apply/transfer earlier than 18 months; however we cannot guarantee this opportunity.”
This is what was sent from London Underground as part of the recruitment process for Night Tube train Operators.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 20, 2017 13:35:38 GMT
"There may be opportunities dependant (sic) on business requirement to apply/transfer earlier than 18 months; however we cannot guarantee this opportunity.”
I reckon the argument will be that the business requirement is for the NT drivers to stay where they are as its easier to recruit full time drivers than to replace part timers. After 19 years with the Tube this isn't really a surprise, that's just how management work.
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Dom K
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The future is bright
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Post by Dom K on Feb 20, 2017 13:38:26 GMT
“If I am successful in getting the part time role is there the possibility of me transferring to full time? Your contract will be for 15 hours per week working Friday and Saturday nights. Normally you must stay in the part time role for a minimum of 18 months before becoming eligible to apply to transfer to a full time role. There may be opportunities dependant (sic) on business requirement to apply/transfer earlier than 18 months; however we cannot guarantee this opportunity.” |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 20, 2017 13:44:00 GMT
And I suppose that "business need" was never defined, so one side can say that the hiring of full-time drivers demonstrates a "business need" and so the part time drivers should be allowed to apply, while the other side can say that there isn't a "business need" that warrants exercising that clause.
Plus I seem to recall reading elsewhere that the starting point for the 18 months is also ambiguous (contract start date, training start date, training end date, etc), so yet again bodges and sloppy wording have left a big mess that poor industrial relations hinder the cleaning up of.
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 20, 2017 13:55:36 GMT
Yes, there are three different versions of what 18 months means depending on which document you read. The crazy thing is that NT Train Operators can apply for any job advertised on the internal vacancy website (full time or otherwise) once they have passed their 6 months probation apart from the very job that they are trained to do.
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Post by trt on Feb 20, 2017 14:57:22 GMT
I can see night-tube becoming completely driverless in the not too distant future. And by that, I don't mean "fully automated", I mean not having any drivers willing to do it!
Just a thought... Is there any issue about letting two TO23s expand their hours to cover the hours of 1 new TO21? I mean, if TO23s only do Fri and Sat night, isn't there scope for them to work two shifts Monday to Thursday?
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 20, 2017 16:54:30 GMT
TO23's and TO21's are oil and water. They must never mix. So for instance, if as a TO23 you are on a spare duty and at 5am a train needs to come out of the sidings and into the platform, if that move is on the day duty, a TO23 is not allowed to do that move even if there are no spare TO21's available. TO23's cannot also do voluntary overtime so although many would jump at the chance of doing a couple of days during the week to earn a bit more and cover uncovered duties, they are not allowed.
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Post by trt on Feb 20, 2017 17:55:49 GMT
TO23's and TO21's are oil and water. They must never mix. And under who's operating arrangements is that determined? Union, management, collective agreement? I'm just curious as to why there seems to be such problems with finding a good working relationship. It strikes me a lot of this is due to poor management, but am I seeing the whole picture here? |
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 20, 2017 18:05:11 GMT
I believe the rules all come from The Machinery of Negotiation and Consultation and therefore become collective agreements. There is no doubt fault on both sides as what we are left with suits neither side from what I can make out!
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Post by up1989 on Feb 20, 2017 19:36:26 GMT
3 years with the company on Stations and I've always supported every strike and believed it had to be done. This one though I can't agree with. RMT have got it wrong. No sympathy for NT tOps, they knew it was 18 months no going FT when they applied. Its not the issue with the 18months, as we all knew that when we signed up, it about that to company are putting full timers infant of us meaning we could be waiting for 2-3-4 years plus for a full time job to come up. Imagine if you wanted to apply for another job on stations but the company put people before you who applied after you? It could happen to any grade in LU with the company leap frogging people ahead of you. I would support you if it was to happen to station staff and I would support any station issue raised by the unions. Bit sad to hear it is not reciprocated back. |
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Post by up1989 on Feb 20, 2017 19:39:52 GMT
TO23's and TO21's are oil and water. They must never mix. So for instance, if as a TO23 you are on a spare duty and at 5am a train needs to come out of the sidings and into the platform, if that move is on the day duty, a TO23 is not allowed to do that move even if there are no spare TO21's available. TO23's cannot also do voluntary overtime so although many would jump at the chance of doing a couple of days during the week to earn a bit more and cover uncovered duties, they are not allowed. I hate the oil and water mentality it seems to be so counter intuitive it seems to split NT and full time drivers as we are all doing the same job. How is the Picc on nt? Ive heard about Day and night spares being told to re number trains so that it is not technically a train on an offending duty. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 20, 2017 19:56:08 GMT
TO23's cannot also do voluntary overtime so although many would jump at the chance of doing a couple of days during the week to earn a bit more and cover uncovered duties, they are not allowed. TO21s cannot do voluntary overtime either, both unions agree that if there aren't enough drivers to cover all the shifts then they need to recruit more drivers. We're not Southern...... |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Feb 20, 2017 23:44:06 GMT
Ive heard about Day and night spares being told to re number trains so that it is not technically a train on an offending duty. Every time one thinks one has seen or heard it all now, the modern railway comes up with one better grade of nonsense. This shows the stupid shenanigans today's staff have to work within just to run a railway. |
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 21, 2017 0:34:15 GMT
The problem is, the local RMT rep checks every single duty we do, makes sure we're not in a minute before 20:30 and if he hears we have done something we're not supposed to, he is banging on the door of the depot manager. The local management were kind enough to let us choose which annual leave group we wanted for 2017/18. First come first served. Everyone was happy with that apart from the RMT rep who went mental as we weren't just allocated leave periods according to agreements. Sometimes, you can't make it up.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 21, 2017 7:21:08 GMT
The problem is, the local RMT rep checks every single duty we do, makes sure we're not in a minute before 20:30 and if he hears we have done something we're not supposed to, he is banging on the door of the depot manager. The local management were kind enough to let us choose which annual leave group we wanted for 2017/18. First come first served. Everyone was happy with that apart from the RMT rep who went mental as we weren't just allocated leave periods according to agreements. Sometimes, you can't make it up. What happens 2018/19, will you go on rota basis or will it still be first come first served which is a pain if you're the last one getting the annual leave no one else wants |
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Post by nig on Feb 21, 2017 8:26:27 GMT
The problem is, the local RMT rep checks every single duty we do, makes sure we're not in a minute before 20:30 and if he hears we have done something we're not supposed to, he is banging on the door of the depot manager. The local management were kind enough to let us choose which annual leave group we wanted for 2017/18. First come first served. Everyone was happy with that apart from the RMT rep who went mental as we weren't just allocated leave periods according to agreements. Sometimes, you can't make it up. He wouldnt be doing his job if didnt check your start time and why would you want to start work before your contracted hours ? |
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