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Post by stapler on Jan 13, 2017 8:47:48 GMT
He (JA)may have concluded the plebs hadn't turned out for him! Or of course he could have driven round there later to rub salt in their wounds
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Post by drainrat on Jan 13, 2017 23:18:45 GMT
I guess he didn't want to run into the young Bob Crow 🤔
.......back on topic, I had heard that JA had a 'gentlemans' relationship with the central line GM at the time (name evades me, but generally referred to as the 'Colonal') and voiced his support for the stock that we finally got 🙄
But an interesting fact, one of those plebs later became a company sergeant major in the Royal Marines who lead the raid that captured Saddams General 'chemical' Ali. At least Woodbridge school produced someone from the wrong side of the line 😉
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Post by stapler on Jan 14, 2017 8:21:29 GMT
Interesting, Drainrat. Of course, though Woodbridge is situated on the wrong side of the line, didn't a lot of its pupils come from the posh side? They may even have been to Churchfields Junior!
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Post by superteacher on Jan 14, 2017 10:31:30 GMT
<<Let's not get sidetracked here (pun intended)! Keep the discussion about the 1992 stock, thanks.>>
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Post by drainrat on Jan 14, 2017 19:32:19 GMT
In the course of the Chancery Lane investigation, the reasonings of why the current stock was chosen over the other stock designs was gone into in great detail. One of the other stock - think the one that was in green livery at Woodford - was the preferred choice of fleet and the engineers directorate (so it was seen), and no one could understand why the current stock was actually chosen, cue claims of underhand goings on and backhanders. Given the general distaste for the stock, I don't have much confidence in possibility of post service use, unless someone took it off their hands for free, but would probably be too much hassle for them.
As for Woodbridge school, most were from the estates of Broadmead and Ray lodge. Trinity was on the posh side and boasts a few on screen characters like Tamzin Outhwaite, Louise Lombard and the irrepressible James 'Arg' Argent famed for his sister cheating in the London marathon and having a middle name to remind him what his surname is, it also schooled Bob Crows offspring too 😉
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Post by stapler on Jan 14, 2017 21:50:20 GMT
The present stock wasn't one of the prototypes, was it?
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Post by drainrat on Jan 14, 2017 23:00:42 GMT
I'm not too sure, there were 3, I think the present stock was one of the 3
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 15, 2017 2:06:04 GMT
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Post by stapler on Jan 15, 2017 7:49:39 GMT
The one thing I most remember when the 92s came in was the shoddy design of the seats and armrests, which I don't remember on the prototypes!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 10:52:18 GMT
That's the price you pay when you buy the cheapest trains - you get what you pay for! - The 1983 stock could have been re-ordered for the Central Line (a double door version with eight cars) instead....
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 15, 2017 12:19:34 GMT
That's the price you pay when you buy the cheapest trains - you get what you pay for! - The 1983 stock could have been re-ordered for the Central Line (a double door version with eight cars) instead.... the 1983 stock was never reliable which is why new options were examined with technology advancing rapidly at the time. It appears that the accountants won from the engineers at the time of ordering stock for the Central line. I had to get the line diagrams printed and installed for the Woodford event. This meant I saw a lot of imperfections in the prototype trains. They were hand crafted with lots of poor cutting in the bodies etc.
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Post by stapler on Jan 15, 2017 13:05:04 GMT
But then the 92TS has never been reliable either, quite apart from Chancery Lane!
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 15, 2017 15:12:40 GMT
But then the 92TS has never been reliable either, quite apart from Chancery Lane! see second line in my previous post
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Post by will on Jan 15, 2017 17:06:59 GMT
It states in the Transport Committee report of June 2003 that:
Bob Crow, General Secretary of the RMT told the Committee that: “They were breaking down so many times - at huge cost - that they introduced a new grade called a “Train Doctor” because the trains were sick all the time… On top of that, the trains brought in were incompatible with the signalling system and the new track system. There have been constant problems with trains breaking down and so on.
Are train doctors the rolling stock engineers that work in line control centres advising line controllers as to what faulty trains might be and was this practise only started after the events of Chancery Lane? Also is the any truth in the 1992ts not being compatible with the signals and track?
Another point the report made was - The Central Line is the only fleet designed by manufacturers which do not have any maintenance obligation. Is this why LUL were so keen to have Alstom look after the 1995/6 ts?
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North End
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Post by North End on Jan 15, 2017 17:20:33 GMT
Another point the report made was - The Central Line is the only fleet designed by manufacturers which do not have any maintenance obligation. Is this why LUL were so keen to have Alstom look after the 1995/6 ts? Notwithstanding anything else, at a time of budgetary shortfall, the PFI was pretty much the only way of financing the 95 stock. A trial light refurbishment of a 59 stock train was carried out to assess viability of retaining them should fleet replacement not happen. A shame in many ways, as the 59 stock might then have had a lifespan comparable to the A stock, although this in itself would have been costly as it would have required retention of guards (conversion of 59 stock to OPO would have been extremely costly). To be fair, the Alstom contract has generally delivered well - especially as the contract has matured. The 95 stock performs well, and is in a noticeably better all-round state than the 96 stock, and is in a *much* better condition than 92 stock despite only being a few years younger. I'm less familiar with the financial aspects of the Alstom deal, so can't comment on whether it has been good value-for-money.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 17:20:55 GMT
The 92 stock was built with the Westrace signalling system from the start and was fully backward compatible with conventional signalling. Once the final switch over was completed the tripcocks were removed
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 15, 2017 19:11:34 GMT
I'm not too sure, there were 3, I think the present stock was one of the 3 The Wilipedia article suggests that the production run was based on the BREL (blue) train, that being the one favoured by the public - not necessarily the operators or maintenance teams' choice, be it noted. But looking at the photos, some features of the other two trains (both built by Metro Cammell) seem to have crept into the production series: note in particular the side windows of the green train.
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Post by drainrat on Jan 15, 2017 21:00:40 GMT
The one thing I most remember when the 92s came in was the shoddy design of the seats and armrests, which I don't remember on the prototypes! Yet the armrests persist on the W&C line
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 15, 2017 21:44:31 GMT
The one thing I most remember when the 92s came in was the shoddy design of the seats and armrests, which I don't remember on the prototypes! Yet the armrests persist on the W&C line It must be the different class of passengers!
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Post by stapler on Jan 16, 2017 8:30:40 GMT
But of a different design, I think?
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Post by will on Jan 16, 2017 8:41:40 GMT
But of a different design, I think? It's all the same design they ordered 85 8 car for the central line and 5 4 car for the Waterloo and City. Only difference the Central version was built for ATO. At the time Network South East as it was decided to order the same trains LUL was buying as it was cheaper than coming up with their own design. From introduction all 92 units had arm rests don't know why the Central lines were removed though.
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Post by philthetube on Jan 16, 2017 8:50:38 GMT
They were removed because they kept getting broken, not sure if maliciously.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 16, 2017 9:25:36 GMT
Apart from minor details such as paint, the trains were the same. The NSE ones were tested on the Central Line (the Drain having neither the space nor the negative rail to allow them to be tested whilst the 1940 stock was still in situ). In theory I suppose a mixed formation was possible but I don't know if it ever happened.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jan 16, 2017 9:42:32 GMT
Apart from minor details such as paint, the trains were the same. The NOSE ones were tested on the Central Line (the Drain having neither the space nor the negative rail to allow them to be tested whilst the 1940 stock was still in situ). In theory I suppose a mixed formation was possible but I don't know if it ever happened.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 16, 2017 9:58:04 GMT
That film showing that the DMs were fitted with working autocouplers at the cab ends, even though they would never be required in normal use!
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 16, 2017 10:39:02 GMT
They were removed because they kept getting broken, not sure if maliciously. Sadly, it was deliberate.
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Post by stapler on Jan 16, 2017 12:07:26 GMT
Very nice film of testing on the Central Line. Stratford, almost no passengers, again; good shot of Leyton B entrance, bridge, etc, removed a few years later
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Post by Chris M on Jan 16, 2017 12:57:01 GMT
That film showing that the DMs were fitted with working autocouplers at the cab ends, even though they would never be required in normal use! Surely they would be required in the event of a pushout being needed?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 16, 2017 14:31:02 GMT
Surely they would be required in the event of a pushout being needed? That's hardly "normal use", and pushouts have to operate on other lines with emergency couplers only.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 18:02:04 GMT
It states in the Transport Committee report of June 2003 that: Are train doctors the rolling stock engineers that work in line control centres advising line controllers as to what faulty trains might be and was this practise only started after the events of Chancery Lane? There are three grades in maintenance. Train Maintainer, Advanced Train Maintainer and Train Doctor/Engineer. Basically TM's do planned work, ATM's do the more involved work, and if the ATM's can't do it the train doctors have a look.
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