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Post by drainrat on Nov 26, 2016 14:51:51 GMT
On the underground, What two stations can you continuously travel north from one to the other from?
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Post by Chris M on Nov 26, 2016 15:36:43 GMT
King's Cross St. Pancras and Euston on the Northern and Victoria lines. Obviously you can also travel continuously travel south between the same pair of stations by the same method.
I wonder if the interchange times are sufficiently different that you can travel significantly further north or south in a given period of time?
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Post by drainrat on Nov 26, 2016 16:44:21 GMT
it was a question I remember years ago in OTM cryptic cross
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Post by class411 on Nov 26, 2016 17:02:23 GMT
I must be in one of my extra thick moods today!
I didn't understand the question when it was posed and I'm even more confused now!!
What is meant by 'continuously travel north'?
Euston (and Euston Square) are pretty much West of King's Cross.
I thought the question might mean travel in a near straight line, near directly north. The nearest to a reasonable answer to that would be either Victoria-Green Park or Green Park-Oxford Circus on the Victoria.
However, Chris's answer seems to blow that interpretation out of the water.
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Post by domh245 on Nov 26, 2016 17:13:35 GMT
If you take the Victoria Line from Euston to King's Cross you are going North, whilst the same journey on the Northern line is Southbound. Similar scenario for King's Cross to Euston but obviously with the directions of the lines reversed. Therefore it is possible to go between the 2 stations whilst only ever travelling Northbound.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 26, 2016 17:21:16 GMT
Well, either you're all going mad or I am.
Euston is predominantly west of King's Cross.
There is no way you can travel in either direction by going continuously pure north or south.
ETA: Or is this some insanely technical/insider question that is intended to mean that at no point (on and S-N journey) does the track ever curve in such a way that a train travelling on it would, for a short time, be going south?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 17:30:10 GMT
Well, either you're all going mad or I am. Euston is predominantly west of King's Cross. There is no way you can travel in either direction by going continuously pure north or south. ETA: Or is this some insanely technical/insider question that is intended to mean that at no point (on and S-N journey) does the track ever curve in such a way that a train travelling on it would, for a short time, be going south? What dom means is that the Victoria line is described as northbound/southbound. As in, it's northbound from Brixton to Walthamstow C and southbound from Walthamstow to Brixton. Although obviously at any given point you may not be travelling geographically north/south and two adjacent stations may not be geographically north/south of each other - or even close. Same on the Northern. However. A northbound Victoria line train (Brixton to Walthamstow) travels Warren St - Euston - King's Cross - Highbury & Islington. But. A northbound Northern line train (Morden to Barnet/Edgware) travels Angel - King's Cross - Euston - Camden Town. What this means is that you can get on a northbound Northern line train at King's Cross and go to Euston, get off, get onto a northbound Victoria line train, go back to King's Cross, get off, get onto a northbound Northern line train, go to Euston, get off, get onto a northbound Victoria line and travel round and round and round, whilst always heading northbound (although not geographically north obviously!)
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 26, 2016 17:40:04 GMT
Thanks.
I do think the original question should have said: "On the underground, what two stations can you continuously travel northbound from one to the other from?
I'm quite impressed that anyone managed to make any sense of it the way it was written.
Damned interesting piece of quirky information, though.
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Post by drainrat on Nov 26, 2016 22:31:44 GMT
Thanks. I do think the original question should have said: "On the underground, what two stations can you continuously travel northbound from one to the other from? I'm quite impressed that anyone managed to make any sense of it the way it was written. Damned interesting piece of quirky information, though. I deliberately left the 'bound' out, as the original question in the staff quiz had also, I guess to add ambiguity
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Post by stuartroy on Nov 27, 2016 8:41:16 GMT
I've known about this one for some time - partly, I suppose, because Euston was my "local" station when I worked in London. Is this situation unique, or are there any other examples anyone can think of on the LUL network - or even more widely on the national rail network? (This isn't a quiz question - I don't know of any answer.)
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2016 11:20:04 GMT
The closest similar thing on TfL that I can think of is that it is possible to travel from Highbury & Islington to Cannonbury on a train bound for Clapham Junction on the East London Line, change to a Clapham Junction-bound train on the North London Line and arrive back at Highbury & Islington.
As Jubilee and DLR trains to Central London depart the station in opposite directions there may be something relevant to this thread there, but if so I can't figure what it is.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 27, 2016 11:41:55 GMT
The closest similar thing on TfL that I can think of is that it is possible to travel from Highbury & Islington to Cannonbury on a train bound for Clapham Junction on the East London Line, change to a Clapham Junction-bound train on the North London Line and arrive back at Highbury & Islington. That's quite a good one. If you state it as: "Stopping only to change trains, I can travel indefinitely on a train bound for Clapham Junction, it sounds quite eerie. You can give a general form for the puzzle: "Stopping only to change trains, I can travel indefinitely on a train bound [for] X", where 'X' is North for the original question in the thread
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Post by John Tuthill on Nov 27, 2016 12:40:37 GMT
The closest similar thing on TfL that I can think of is that it is possible to travel from Highbury & Islington to Cannonbury on a train bound for Clapham Junction on the East London Line, change to a Clapham Junction-bound train on the North London Line and arrive back at Highbury & Islington. As Jubilee and DLR trains to Central London depart the station in opposite directions there may be something relevant to this thread there, but if so I can't figure what it is. As you do at Exeter for Paddington and Waterloo
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Post by castlebar on Nov 27, 2016 18:55:21 GMT
L T "had previous form" for this
When many years ago, LT merged the 429 and 439 bus routes, there was one crossroads where you could catch a 439 going in 3 different directions and at the same crossroads, but at different stops, buses from Reigate could get to Dorking via Brockham or Newdigate, but not both
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 27, 2016 19:56:14 GMT
As Jubilee and DLR trains to Central London depart the station in opposite directions there may be something relevant to this thread there, but if so I can't figure what it is. As you do at Exeter for Paddington and Waterloo [/quote] But at Canning Town and at Exeter there is only one station for which that is true. You can, however shuttle backwards and forwards between Teddington and Strawberry Hill on Waterloo-bound trains all day - however, as the service is half-hourly, and the trains pass each other between those two stations, it would takje a long tinme.
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Post by arun on Nov 27, 2016 22:42:44 GMT
As you do at Exeter for Paddington and Waterloo [/quote]
Very slightly closer to London than Exeter, You can get a train from Weybridge to Waterloo from two adjacent platforms and set off travelling in opposite directions.
Arun
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Post by Chris M on Nov 28, 2016 0:38:23 GMT
L T "had previous form" for this When many years ago, LT merged the 429 and 439 bus routes, there was one crossroads where you could catch a 439 going in 3 different directions and at the same crossroads, but at different stops, buses from Reigate could get to Dorking via Brockham or Newdigate, but not both There are currently three different routes between Canary Wharf and Crossharbour (135, 277 and D8), all of which serve the same stops at both places. At the southern end of East Ferry Road on the Isle of Dogs the 135 and 277 serve the same stops, on the west side of the road you can get a 277 heading to Crossharbour or a 135 towards Canary Wharf on the opposite side you can get a 135 heading to Crossharbour or a 277 towards Canary Wharf.
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Post by castlebar on Nov 28, 2016 14:01:40 GMT
The reason for my posting on this topic yesterday was that years ago, whenever this sort of anomaly occurred, LT took the view that common sense and "local knowledge" would have ensured there were no problems with these quirky situations
Now, there are many travellers, (sorry "customers"), with no local knowledge, and common sense seems to have been flushed down the pan in recent years. Many people are unable to read a simple timetable that 8 year olds could manage 60 years ago when we were out and about with our day long "Red Rovers"
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Post by drainrat on Nov 28, 2016 16:01:05 GMT
The closest similar thing on TfL that I can think of is that it is possible to travel from Highbury & Islington to Cannonbury on a train bound for Clapham Junction on the East London Line, change to a Clapham Junction-bound train on the North London Line and arrive back at Highbury & Islington. As Jubilee and DLR trains to Central London depart the station in opposite directions there may be something relevant to this thread there, but if so I can't figure what it is. I would argue that only the DLR goes to Central London, the jubilee just skirts it, but that's me being the pedant, the jubilee heading south, DLR SW, but both going same way as it were
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 28, 2016 16:14:31 GMT
Depending on your definition of "Central" The DLR only has two stations in Zone 1 (on different branches), even if one of them is Bank. And Westminster seems pretty central to me.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 28, 2016 16:41:14 GMT
Bank and Tower Gateway are both definitely central London. As for the Jubilee, I'd say London Bridge to Bond Street (and probably to Baker Street too) is clearly central London - not the City of course but the West End, Westminster, Waterloo and South Bank are just as central.
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Post by stuartroy on Nov 28, 2016 22:39:45 GMT
I think I've found one more, albeit historical, scenario:
Am I right in saying that between 1947 and 1959 one could have taken an Eastbound Central from White City to Shepherd's Bush, and then (via what we'd now call an OSI) Eastbound Met from Shepherd's Bush to White City?
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Post by Chris M on Nov 29, 2016 3:21:24 GMT
There is another in London - on Tramlink you can travel infinitely towards Elmers End by changing at East Croydon and travelling round the loop. East Croydon being the place the destination changes (West Croydon would make more sense, but East Croydon is the place that is used and allows this to be true).
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Post by drainrat on Nov 29, 2016 16:32:55 GMT
Depending on your definition of "Central" The DLR only has two stations in Zone 1 (on different branches), even if one of them is Bank. And Westminster seems pretty central to me. I would define 'Central' as the City of London, so Bank would be the only Central London station, London Bridge is the closest the jubilee line comes to the City.
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Post by drainrat on Nov 29, 2016 16:38:38 GMT
I think I've found one more, albeit historical, scenario: Am I right in saying that between 1947 and 1959 one could have taken an Eastbound Central from White City to Shepherd's Bush, and then (via what we'd now call an OSI) Eastbound Met from Shepherd's Bush to White City? I would argue that although named 'shepherds bush', they are two separate stations that are in Shepherd's Bush. It's probably less of a walk between Bank-Monument than it is between the two stations in Shepherd's Bush. Also, white city station has opened on H&C so if you count the two stations as one, then yes, this is another scenario
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 29, 2016 18:45:25 GMT
I would define 'Central' as the City of London,. Road distances are measured from Charing Cross - which the Jubilee used to serve but doesn't any more.
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Post by drainrat on Nov 29, 2016 20:41:33 GMT
would that be station, or somewhere else around. We were always told at school it was Trafalgar Square, but guess that is in Charing X. Growing up in Easy End, we always took city as Central, anything between Aldgate and Holborn, beyond Holborn was the West End from St Giles rookery. We never saw the West End as Central, I mean, it's the West end haha. Suppose people across most cities see there city differently to others and even among themselves. Take for instance East London, to me East London and the East end are different, the East end is city wall to Mile End/Poplar, East London is anything beyond Tower Hamlets like Newham, parts of Waltham Forest and Redbridge, basically the A12 cuts them in half west of Olympic stadium. I'm sure other East Enders see it differently
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Post by Chris M on Nov 29, 2016 20:51:04 GMT
The central point of London for road distances is the site of the original Eleanor Cross on the south side of Trafalgar Square (the cross outside the station is a replica). Roughly where the statue of King Charles is now.
As for East End/East London, I agree they are different and roughly the same as you, but to my mind the Isle of Dogs (where I live) is east London but not the East End although north eastern parts of Tower Hamlets and some parts of Newham (Blackwall, Bow, West Ham) to me are. Stratford and the Royal Docks are East London rather than East End.
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Post by drainrat on Nov 29, 2016 21:35:26 GMT
The central point of London for road distances is the site of the original Eleanor Cross on the south side of Trafalgar Square (the cross outside the station is a replica). Roughly where the statue of King Charles is now. As for East End/East London, I agree they are different and roughly the same as you, but to my mind the Isle of Dogs (where I live) is east London but not the East End although north eastern parts of Tower Hamlets and some parts of Newham (Blackwall, Bow, West Ham) to me are. Stratford and the Royal Docks are East London rather than East End. Yes, the isle of dogs has always been an anomaly, like the place time forgot. I deliver coach development in my part time for the RFU (I'm a professional academy head coach) and I once had to do a class at Millwall rugby club, after the class session we go outside to coach and the clubs training paddock is at mudchute farm, I had no idea it was there in all the time I lived in the area, thought I was in the sticks, only the tall buildings at Canary Wharf looming in the distance that lets you know you're in the city. We moved to Canning Town when I was young where my mum comes from and she knew it as the old borough of West Ham, West Ham itself is actually part of Stratford district, Stratford market depot straddles West Ham and Stratford, where the trains are out stabled borders abbey lane which is West Ham. I thought Blackwall and Bow were in tower hamlets?
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Post by drainrat on Nov 29, 2016 21:39:13 GMT
Another interesting fact, the old Boleyn ground was in old borough of East Ham - Green street splits the two old boroughs, the Olympic stadium is in old West Ham Borough, so in effect, West Ham actually moved back home!
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