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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 15:41:41 GMT
Tunnel lights come on automatically when traction current is lost. They can be switched on/off from station platforms, usually one station controls the lights halfway to the next station. Sometimes the manual switching fails and lights can remain on while trains are running. Thanks for this. So to clarify, on those occasions when I've seen tunnel lights on as the train passes by them, this is because manual switching from the nearest station has failed? And that normally, if a train is running then there should be no lights on and the driver relies on the train's headlights to see the tunnel ahead? Yeah, manual switching has failed or I presume they can be left on simply by mistake? Anyway, yes, you rely on the headlights, but they won't show you much of the tunnel, because there's really nothing to see and no need to see it. Yes, you must watch the road for any kind of obstruction, or a person on the track or anything like that, and you rely on the headlights for that. You also need to see the signals, but um, there's not a lot of need for headlights to see the colour light signals. You also use them to pick out reflectorised signage, such as speed restriction signs and signal identification plates and stuff like that. On the Central you'll use them to pick up the block marker boards as well - and in that case the tunnel lights apparently can actually have the effect of swallowing up the block marker boards and making them difficult to see. But I just wanted to point out that, in general, it's not like you'll need to see all that much down there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 18:06:00 GMT
Thanks for this. So to clarify, on those occasions when I've seen tunnel lights on as the train passes by them, this is because manual switching from the nearest station has failed? And that normally, if a train is running then there should be no lights on and the driver relies on the train's headlights to see the tunnel ahead? Yeah, manual switching has failed or I presume they can be left on simply by mistake? Anyway, yes, you rely on the headlights, but they won't show you much of the tunnel, because there's really nothing to see and no need to see it. Yes, you must watch the road for any kind of obstruction, or a person on the track or anything like that, and you rely on the headlights for that. You also need to see the signals, but um, there's not a lot of need for headlights to see the colour light signals. You also use them to pick out reflectorised signage, such as speed restriction signs and signal identification plates and stuff like that. On the Central you'll use them to pick up the block marker boards as well - and in that case the tunnel lights apparently can actually have the effect of swallowing up the block marker boards and making them difficult to see. But I just wanted to point out that, in general, it's not like you'll need to see all that much down there. Thanks very much tut, and to everyone else for their helpful replies. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 13:20:52 GMT
Hello all. I have a couple of new technical questions as part of my research for a novel. Many of you have been very helpful in the past so I hope someone can help again!
These questions are relating to 1995 Stock as used on the Northern Line, for a sequence taking place in the year 2000.
1) How does the driver activate the 'M' door from inside the cabin? Does it need to be unlocked or just a case of using the handle?
2) Are there steps that fold down (as on 1996 Stock) or does the door just open like a normal interconnecting door?
3) Do the detrainment lights automatically activate when the 'M' door is opened?
Thanks in advance!
David
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Post by drainrat on Jan 21, 2017 16:40:29 GMT
If a PEA is pulled, the emergency brakes are applied wherever it happens as it breaks the Round Train circuit. If between stations, there is a PEA override button that has to be depressed and kept depressed to move the train. The PEA will then be reset at the next station unless it was pulled within station limits and then will be reset straight away. As above, CSDE override does just that and you can open any doors within the 30 second time limit. The other J doors are alarmed and an intruder alert will go off in the leading cab that will be investigated at the next station. Emergency lights are on all of the time and they are protected by a separate fuse than the main car lighting. As for PEA, it all depends on what line. Some have a countdown from when train is moved that will apply emergency brake within this time, it's measured with train acceleration and time to vacate platform. Once countdown is up, if PEA pulled, then no emergency brake is applied, but driver is aware. The purpose for this is that TfL wants incidents dealt with at stations, not between. |
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Post by drainrat on Jan 21, 2017 16:42:50 GMT
I know for sure that the 73 and 92 stocks have a cab intruder alarm which sounds in the active drivers cab, which warns them that the rear or middle cab door is open. All I've ever seen is a DTS message, never heard the intruder alarm before. |
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
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Post by hobbayne on Jan 21, 2017 16:55:27 GMT
I know for sure that the 73 and 92 stocks have a cab intruder alarm which sounds in the active drivers cab, which warns them that the rear or middle cab door is open. All I've ever seen is a DTS message, never heard the intruder alarm before. You are right regarding the 92 stock, but the 73's are alarmed. |
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Post by drainrat on Jan 21, 2017 17:13:35 GMT
4) Can a driver open all doors on a train, in every car and on both sides? If so, is it possible for this to happen while the train is in a tunnel? I'll have a go at this one. By all doors, I'm assuming you mean all the passenger doors (to be pedantic). I mean, they could open all the cab doors in their cab as well, but to open them all in the back cab would require them to walk all the way along the train to the back cab and open them from there (so the answer's still yes, but not from the front cab). Also the inter-connecting doors between cars would have to be done manually, walking all the way along the train, a driver couldn't do it from the cab. But yes, where you have platforms on both sides, the doors on both sides can be opened if the CSDE is configured for that without any kind of hackery at all. Indeed I believe it does happen at Arnos Grove that the doors will be opened on both sides of the train in platform 2/3, where there's a platform on both sides of the train. However, this is not usually done at Cockfosters or Uxbridge. Assuming, however, that everything on the train is functioning, no you cannot open any passenger doors on the train when it is in a tunnel, or else not stopped in a platform. If, however, you were to disable or override the relevant equipment, you presumably could. Hard to see why you would. In answer to last paragraph. Latest procedures giving reason to do exactly this, in order to give passengers a getaway option in event of active antagonists. |
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Post by drainrat on Jan 21, 2017 17:16:46 GMT
All I've ever seen is a DTS message, never heard the intruder alarm before. You are right regarding the 92 stock, but the 73's are alarmed. We had several incidents around 2004-06, where inactive cabs on train had the cab doors opened from platform. Incidents often occurred at Mile End eb. Doors deactivated after this, allegedly |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 18:23:59 GMT
Hello all. I have a couple of new technical questions as part of my research for a novel. Many of you have been very helpful in the past so I hope someone can help again! These questions are relating to 1995 Stock as used on the Northern Line, for a sequence taking place in the year 2000. 1) How does the driver activate the 'M' door from inside the cabin? Does it need to be unlocked or just a case of using the handle? 2) Are there steps that fold down (as on 1996 Stock) or does the door just open like a normal interconnecting door? 3) Do the detrainment lights automatically activate when the 'M' door is opened? Thanks in advance! David 1) Just using the handle iirc on most stocks. 2) am sure there is a thread somewhere that explains the difference between 95/96TS and shows the emergency steps for both. 3) Not sure but doubt it as if there is a signal failure, sometimes the engineer will jump in with the driver to the site, and jump out of the m door. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 19:16:29 GMT
Hello all. I have a couple of new technical questions as part of my research for a novel. Many of you have been very helpful in the past so I hope someone can help again! These questions are relating to 1995 Stock as used on the Northern Line, for a sequence taking place in the year 2000. 1) How does the driver activate the 'M' door from inside the cabin? Does it need to be unlocked or just a case of using the handle? 2) Are there steps that fold down (as on 1996 Stock) or does the door just open like a normal interconnecting door? 3) Do the detrainment lights automatically activate when the 'M' door is opened? Thanks in advance! David 1) Just using the handle iirc on most stocks. 2) am sure there is a thread somewhere that explains the difference between 95/96TS and shows the emergency steps for both. 3) Not sure but doubt it as if there is a signal failure, sometimes the engineer will jump in with the driver to the site, and jump out of the m door. There are no steps integral to the M door on 1995 stock, it's a fold-out ladder, as you can see here: districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/24288/95-stock-cab |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jan 21, 2017 19:51:19 GMT
Hello all. I have a couple of new technical questions as part of my research for a novel. Many of you have been very helpful in the past so I hope someone can help again! These questions are relating to 1995 Stock as used on the Northern Line, for a sequence taking place in the year 2000. 1) How does the driver activate the 'M' door from inside the cabin? Does it need to be unlocked or just a case of using the handle? 2) Are there steps that fold down (as on 1996 Stock) or does the door just open like a normal interconnecting door? 3) Do the detrainment lights automatically activate when the 'M' door is opened? Thanks in advance! David 1) On the 95 stock it's just a conventional door opened and closed via a handle. Unlike the 96 stock which has a rather complex and troublesome arrangement. The earliest 95 stock trains had the same, but the Northern Line decided they didn't like it, so they designed something better, and the early trains were retrofitted accordingly. 2) No. The detrainment device is a separate item. When not in use it hangs on a pedestal just inside the M door, and when deployed it clips onto mountings around the M door and unfolds from there. 3) Yes. Having said that, I can't recall if this depends on whether the cab is keyed on or not. I'd have to check if you lose headlights if the M door is opened at the same time as the cab is keyed on, although from memory I think the answer is yes. Naturally no one should *ever* leave the train via the M door if the cab is keyed on, although there is a scenario where it is necessary for the train to be moving with the M door open. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Jan 21, 2017 20:02:13 GMT
If a PEA is pulled, the emergency brakes are applied wherever it happens as it breaks the Round Train circuit. If between stations, there is a PEA override button that has to be depressed and kept depressed to move the train. The PEA will then be reset at the next station unless it was pulled within station limits and then will be reset straight away. As above, CSDE override does just that and you can open any doors within the 30 second time limit. The other J doors are alarmed and an intruder alert will go off in the leading cab that will be investigated at the next station. Emergency lights are on all of the time and they are protected by a separate fuse than the main car lighting. As for PEA, it all depends on what line. Some have a countdown from when train is moved that will apply emergency brake within this time, it's measured with train acceleration and time to vacate platform. Once countdown is up, if PEA pulled, then no emergency brake is applied, but driver is aware. The purpose for this is that TfL wants incidents dealt with at stations, not between. On the 95 stock (and presumably 96 stock) it's linked in with the TBTC. Previously the 95 stock had a timer which would apply the brakes if a handle was pulled within a certain period after the doors being cycled. After stopping the T/Op has the option to either go back and reset the handle or operate a cut-out rotary switch in the cab to allow him to continue to the next station. The pseudo-platform in the Kennington Loop complicates things a little, and in the early days of TBTC caught out a lot of drivers in knowing how to do the workaround. ("Workaround" being a favourite word in the TBTC/Seltrac vocabulary!). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 23:46:48 GMT
[1) Just using the handle iirc on most stocks. 2) am sure there is a thread somewhere that explains the difference between 95/96TS and shows the emergency steps for both. 3) Not sure but doubt it as if there is a signal failure, sometimes the engineer will jump in with the driver to the site, and jump out of the m door. luaction, thank you! tut, thanks very much - that thread and its images are extremely useful. 1) On the 95 stock it's just a conventional door opened and closed via a handle. Unlike the 96 stock which has a rather complex and troublesome arrangement. The earliest 95 stock trains had the same, but the Northern Line decided they didn't like it, so they designed something better, and the early trains were retrofitted accordingly. 2) No. The detrainment device is a separate item. When not in use it hangs on a pedestal just inside the M door, and when deployed it clips onto mountings around the M door and unfolds from there. 3) Yes. Having said that, I can't recall if this depends on whether the cab is keyed on or not. I'd have to check if you lose headlights if the M door is opened at the same time as the cab is keyed on, although from memory I think the answer is yes. Naturally no one should *ever* leave the train via the M door if the cab is keyed on, although there is a scenario where it is necessary for the train to be moving with the M door open. North End, this is also really informative and useful - thank you! Thanks also for the additional replies to my earlier queries, also very useful. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 23:49:27 GMT
The pseudo-platform in the Kennington Loop complicates things a little, and in the early days of TBTC caught out a lot of drivers in knowing how to do the workaround. ("Workaround" being a favourite word in the TBTC/Seltrac vocabulary!). Can you please provide any more info about this pseudo-platform? I'm familiar with the Kennington Loop but have never heard of this. |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jan 22, 2017 0:16:47 GMT
The pseudo-platform in the Kennington Loop complicates things a little, and in the early days of TBTC caught out a lot of drivers in knowing how to do the workaround. ("Workaround" being a favourite word in the TBTC/Seltrac vocabulary!). Can you please provide any more info about this pseudo-platform? I'm familiar with the Kennington Loop but have never heard of this. It's basically a signalling berth in the Kennington Loop, roughly where the former outer home signal (B.36 A) used to be located. In practical terms it allows the signaller to hold a train there to give preference to a train off the Morden branch (or siding). In signalling terms it behaves in a similar fashion to a station platform, namely that the train will be brought to a stand there and given a countdown (isn't technology wonderful - for all those years it was possible to run non-stop round the loop, now every train is brought to a stand even if running late!). If a handle is pulled, the train will run to the pseudo-platform and remain there. Drivers were overlooking the need to cut out the passenger alarm in order to proceed to the real platform. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 13:09:03 GMT
Can you please provide any more info about this pseudo-platform? I'm familiar with the Kennington Loop but have never heard of this. It's basically a signalling berth in the Kennington Loop, roughly where the former outer home signal (B.36 A) used to be located. In practical terms it allows the signaller to hold a train there to give preference to a train off the Morden branch (or siding). In signalling terms it behaves in a similar fashion to a station platform, namely that the train will be brought to a stand there and given a countdown (isn't technology wonderful - for all those years it was possible to run non-stop round the loop, now every train is brought to a stand even if running late!). If a handle is pulled, the train will run to the pseudo-platform and remain there. Drivers were overlooking the need to cut out the passenger alarm in order to proceed to the real platform. Thanks again! |
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