class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743 
|
Post by class411 on Jun 20, 2016 8:11:38 GMT
I found this whilst researching some trips. I've seen various geo-accurate maps before all of which have interesting features. This is the tidiest of the maps I've found, and as I haven't seen it referenced here before I thought I'd share it. Interactive mapPDF (easily expandable and printable) |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Jun 20, 2016 10:14:20 GMT
Correct only for extremely "ish" definitions of geo-accurate.
The point seems to be to show the approximately real distance between stations on the different lines, the geographical position of stations that are not near any others on the TfL network, not near the river and are not a terminus are ignored.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 20, 2016 10:28:58 GMT
Correct only for extremely "ish" definitions of geo-accurate. The point seems to be to show the approximately real distance between stations on the different lines, the geographical position of stations that are not near any others on the TfL network, not near the river and are not a terminus are ignored. Quite. This is what has enabled them to produce such a tidy map,that is still useful if you are doing some planning and want to know whether walking or using a bus is likely to be a viable idea. |
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 20, 2016 10:48:16 GMT
On the interactive map, they have a number of tabs with different options, including journey time between stops and walking links
|
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 20, 2016 11:12:36 GMT
At least they got Morden in the right zone.
|
|
|
|
Post by patrickb on Jun 20, 2016 23:35:05 GMT
This map with 30 and 60 Degree Angles should be the new format for all TfL services. When more Overground Lines and Crossrail Lines are included, the Beck format won't be able to handle the change unless you let it uncontrollably mutate.
Of course to the bean counters, the present format is a 'valuable' asset and therefore 'perfect'.
Someone with a little more understanding will see that the Beck format worked for the network in it's 30's and not the 21st Century, at best it could accommodate the North London and East London Lines without lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
However, considering how the originally diagram had very little of East London in it, one wonders how the West side of the map had managed to stay the same all this time.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 7:36:01 GMT
This map with 30 and 60 Degree Angles should be the new format for all TfL services. When more Overground Lines and Crossrail Lines are included, the Beck format won't be able to handle the change unless you let it uncontrollably mutate. Of course to the bean counters, the present format is a 'valuable' asset and therefore 'perfect'. Someone with a little more understanding will see that the Beck format worked for the network in it's 30's and not the 21st Century, at best it could accommodate the North London and East London Lines without lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth. However, considering how the originally diagram had very little of East London in it, one wonders how the West side of the map had managed to stay the same all this time. I feel that the current diagram has been all but ruined (in aesthetic terms) by the inclusion of zones, all the non LU lines, and the disabled access markers. Obviously the standard map should include these things, but it would be nice if LU also made available an 'Underground Only' version, with all but the actual LU lines (and the Thames) removed. It would not be a major undertaking, just involving the deletion of various sections of the PDF file (or the file that generates it). |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 9:05:13 GMT
It's all done in illustrator according to Londonist's video.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 9:33:52 GMT
It's all done in illustrator according to Londonist's video. That's a shame. It would be a major task if you had to use a graphical interface. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 9:52:40 GMT
I quite like the idea. A gradual evolution of a drawn diagram. A lot of people have done it programatically using various optimisation algorithms of course. mappinglondon.co.uk/category/tube/ |
|
|
|
Post by John Tuthill on Jun 21, 2016 10:13:01 GMT
I quite like the idea. A gradual evolution of a drawn diagram. A lot of people have done it programatically using various optimisation algorithms of course. mappinglondon.co.uk/category/tube/ Of course  |
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 10:33:53 GMT
I quite like the idea. A gradual evolution of a drawn diagram. A lot of people have done it programatically using various optimisation algorithms of course. mappinglondon.co.uk/category/tube/ Erm, how do you know they've done it programatically? There is a major problem with that in that it is not easy to get hold of reliable algorithms to draw anti aliased curves, and the effort involved in implementing them is significant. That is what has stalled my own diagram edit/display program. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 11:15:24 GMT
A lot of them said they have. It's not easy to optimise the map automatically. However in terms of anti-aliasing curves... you don't need to. Use SVG or something.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 11:58:47 GMT
A lot of them said they have. It's not easy to optimise the map automatically. However in terms of anti-aliasing curves... you don't need to. Use SVG or something. Well, SVG is an HTML system and thus useless for use within a program. As for the 'or something', believe it or not, I had thought of that. It's finding the applicable 'or something' that's the problem. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 12:06:58 GMT
SVG is vector based and uses coordinates as an input with a whole variety of primitives to choose from - it's really only for the final visualisation stage. Maybe I just don't understand the same as you are meaning when you talk about anti-aliasing. Jonathan Stott's thesis paper on metro modelling algorithms is a great source of information. I've used some of the principles from it for displaying plasmid maps and gene sequencing data.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 13:08:27 GMT
SVG is vector based and uses coordinates as an input with a whole variety of primitives to choose from - it's really only for the final visualisation stage. Maybe I just don't understand the same as you are meaning when you talk about anti-aliasing. Jonathan Stott's thesis paper on metro modelling algorithms is a great source of information. I've used some of the principles from it for displaying plasmid maps and gene sequencing data. Getting a bit off topic, here, but essentially, I have a C++ program in which I need to draw anti-aliased lines and curves. So far I have not found a library that will do that. I can think of various ways of accomplishing what I want but they would all take too long for what is just a small fun project with zero commercial potential. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 14:53:11 GMT
Running on what platform?
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 21, 2016 15:04:51 GMT
Running on what platform? You shouldn't run on any platform - that's how I ended up under a train. |
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 15:39:23 GMT
Running on what platform? 'doze. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 21, 2016 16:34:09 GMT
Running on what platform? 'doze. I had a sneaky feeling you were going to say that. I see your problem. Output a simple SVG file and open it in a web browser. You'll be far happier. Seriously, it's got all the splines, arcs, transforms etc that you could ever need. |
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jun 21, 2016 16:56:17 GMT
I had a sneaky feeling you were going to say that. I see your problem. Output a simple SVG file and open it in a web browser. You'll be far happier. Seriously, it's got all the splines, arcs, transforms etc that you could ever need. There are many ways I could go if I was prepared to use a two stage process like that, but the program is a highly interactive and full screen operable, so jumping in and out of a browser is a bit of a no-no. (And please don't mention Flash!) However, researching as a result of your suggestion it appears that there is something called imagemagick which might be usable with SVG, if it is fast enough and can be driven via WinExec. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 22, 2016 0:04:25 GMT
Sounds like a fascinating project anyway.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 14:58:10 GMT
The map of the current District line routes on the Wikipedia page about the District is pretty good and seems to be geo-accurate, certainly a bit more so than the London Tube one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_line#/media/File:District_Line_%26_London_map.svgI would very much like to create a similar, geo-accurate map of the District, but also showing the routes that the District line and the District Railway previously operated to in the past, e.g. South Acton, Uxbridge, Hounslow West (Hounslow Barracks), Hounslow Town and Windsor. My knowledge of SVG files is that they are actually just text files, but that said perhaps this is easier to correct if you make a mistake? I'm not sure of the best way to proceed, in terms of software and working file type. I don't require the finished map to be any more complicated than the one on Wikipedia, however I would be adding more annotations to it, such as station opening dates, changes of station name and similar. If anyone can make a suggestion based on knowledge and/or experience as to what the best file format to use and indeed how to start, I would be very grateful! Thanks, Miceal |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 8, 2016 15:24:28 GMT
SVG files are simply structured text files, yes. You can define your own coordinate space, so if you already have the data in one format (as x and y coordinates of course), then you can simply write those data out as points within your own defined coordinate system - no need to rescale them. The trick is going to come in how you join them up.
|
|
|
|
Post by tomek on Sept 8, 2016 19:29:02 GMT
You can also use vector graphics software such as Adobe Illustrator or Inkscape (this one is free) to edit those files.
|
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Sept 9, 2016 1:58:03 GMT
I am not sure where the big kink comes from between Croxley and Watford, according ot the ordinance survey the line is virtually straight.
Looking again it appears to follow the line of the old West Watford line, soon to be Croxley rail link. Oops, I think someone misread a map.
Uxbridge is actually due south of Rickmansworth but to show the Met going as far west as it actually does would leave acres of blank space underneath it, so in my opinion fully understandable and acceptable.
I tend to think of the Met going north, when I look at a map it always surprises me how far west it actually does go,
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 9, 2016 7:03:38 GMT
That map has a lot of distortion in the NW corner. Between Moor Park and Croxley you actually turn through more than 90 degrees in real life.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Tuthill on Dec 29, 2016 15:29:08 GMT
I found this whilst researching some trips. I've seen various geo-accurate maps before all of which have interesting features. This is the tidiest of the maps I've found, and as I haven't seen it referenced here before I thought I'd share it. Interactive mapPDF (easily expandable and printable)Looks like someone's celebrating New Year a bit early |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 10:50:47 GMT
As regards the geo-accurate-ish map on page 1. Hhhmmmm...very "ish" for certain stations, for example South Ken is shown as being slightly NE of Gloucester Road when in reality it is very much SE of Gloucester Road....I walked it often enough.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jan 18, 2017 11:13:16 GMT
As regards the geo-accurate-ish map on page 1. Hhhmmmm...very "ish" for certain stations, for example South Ken is shown as being slightly NE of Gloucester Road when in reality it is very much SE of Gloucester Road....I walked it often enough. Yes, hence the 'ish'. It's not supposed to be an highly accurate plan, rather something to give you a somewhat better idea of the true distances involved than the standard diagram. |
|
