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Post by superteacher on Apr 2, 2016 17:33:46 GMT
I noticed on this site that one of the works involved include the plain lining of the points around the British Museum siding. Will this be reinstated or is this siding being decommissioned for good? I hope it's not being decommissioned, as it is often used for service recovery and for reversing trains during suspensions. <<superteacher: Posts moved here from previous Central line thread and existing District line thread about Putney Bridge, as they fit in with the topic of the removal of reversing points.>>
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Post by sawb on Apr 2, 2016 18:30:31 GMT
Probably too difficult to replace those particular points in one go. Closure is repeated over the weekend of 21st/22nd May, so could be it's being plain lined this weekend, before new points going in during that closure?
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Post by bananaman on Apr 3, 2016 7:49:13 GMT
The siding is being removed permanently, on the grounds that the little use it gets doesn't justify its upkeep.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 3, 2016 8:15:16 GMT
The siding is being removed permanently, on the grounds that the little use it gets doesn't justify its upkeep. It gets used fairly frequently in my experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 8:18:56 GMT
Nowhere to put a train, or turn the service, between Marble Arch and Liverpool Street?
I try to refrain from saying such things and obviously I'm not party to the decision making process, but this is an abysmal decision imho.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 3, 2016 8:22:55 GMT
Queensway crossover is hardly ever used, and used far less frequently than British Museum. So using the sane logic, why is that not going?
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Apr 3, 2016 10:46:15 GMT
Yes, I agree.
Museum sidings are used much more frequently than Queensway x over. The sharp curve is one of the reasons it is avoided.
I didn't know about Museums decommissioning. I will try to find out a bit more this afternoon.
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Post by John Tuthill on Apr 3, 2016 10:58:35 GMT
Nowhere to put a train, or turn the service, between Marble Arch and Liverpool Street? I try to refrain from saying such things and obviously I'm not party to the decision making process, but this is an abysmal decision imho. Probably made by a bean counter who never uses the U/G  |
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Post by nickf on Apr 3, 2016 11:49:34 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Apr 3, 2016 12:57:13 GMT
Well Auxy's link seems to suggest that the siding is going, although he may have got that info from here! Who knows?
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 3, 2016 19:47:30 GMT
That'll go down well. Next time there's a greater suspension than would have been required previously, will the relevant person be hauled over the coals?
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 9, 2016 18:39:43 GMT
<off topic> - I'll move to a new thread if it generates any significant comments Moved as promised.
So over the last few years or so, on the District alone the following has gone?
More or less everything at Whitechapel
Bromley-by-Bow crossover
Gloucester Road Circle to District w/b
Putney Bridge, as above
Ealing Broadway sidings (fair enough)
Mansion House, except in emergencies
And probably more, not mentioning (seemingly) quite strange decisions like the removal of British Museum crossover on the Central. It does seem like a strange mindset to have even when things are going well, never mind when things hit the fan.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2016 18:54:47 GMT
<off topic> - I'll move to a new thread if it generates any significant comments So over the last few years or so, on the District alone the following has gone? More or less everything at Whitechapel Bromley-by-Bow crossover Gloucester Road Circle to District w/b Putney Bridge, as above Ealing Broadway sidings (fair enough) Mansion House, except in emergencies And probably more, not mentioning (seemingly) quite strange decisions like the removal of British Museum crossover on the Central. It does seem like a strange mindset to have even when things are going well, never mind when things hit the fan. Whitechapel retains its reversing facilities, but another one which has gone is Hornchurch, I can understand Bromley by Bow going, because there are reversing facilities at both West Ham and Plaistow. Gloucester Road is a travesty, since if there was a dud train in the past, it could be dumped in the westbound District platform whilst everything else could go around it in platform 2. Now, it's not possible to regain the westbound District from that platform. Hornchurch is also a mistake, since it could be used to reverse a late running train when there is platform congestion at Upminster. I suppose that there are plenty of reversing options at Parsons Green, so Putney Bridge may not be a big loss. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 19:36:31 GMT
Next one on the cards for us will be Mansion House then a slight mod at Tower Hill with another crossover just east of the station then East Ham goes. But with East Ham the points are actually being moved to Barking so you will be able to reverse from the E/B platform then just after 40's points there will be another set of points which will take the train back west via the road from the bay road.
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 9, 2016 19:50:40 GMT
The longer trains are necessary to meet the increased demand.
Unfortunately this means that some track layouts no longer work. The increased approach and departure speeds at Putney Bridge will enable a better service.
A faster and more frequent service is crucial along all the lines.
The change at Mansion House will produce a better layout with just an island platform which will be simpler to operate.
The bay road at Tower Hill will be able to take trains from Aldgate/Aldgate East.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2016 20:02:07 GMT
The Tower Hill update is a very good idea, as there are currently very few places to reverse trains from west to east without delaying the service.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 20:12:45 GMT
Them points at Tower Hill will not be commissioned until after the upgrade
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Post by decaded on Apr 9, 2016 20:19:10 GMT
Next one on the cards for us will be Mansion House then a slight mod at Tower Hill with another crossover just east of the station then East Ham goes. But with East Ham the points are actually being moved to Barking so you will be able to reverse from the E/B platform then just after 40's points there will be another set of points which will take the train back west via the road from the bay road. Wonderful.....completely shutting down the E/B whilst train terminates,driver changes ends in the usual leisurly fashion,goes through the tediously slow opening up/logging on procedure etc ....all the while with trains stacking up back towards Plaistow on the almost saturation-point timetable we currently have...with even more likely when the remaining Tower Hill reversers get extended East. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 20:50:03 GMT
There will be no normal timetabled reversing in the E/B platform as you rightly say the delay would be massive.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 9, 2016 20:50:53 GMT
The mainline railway has suffered terribly at times of dispruption (eg: train failure) because long sections of line have had almost all crossovers removed. LU seems to be going in the same direction. Maybe part of the reason for this is the complexity of setting up journey routes for the automated train control system?
I recall the w/b Circle to District track proving to have been very useful during weekend engineering works last year. I was also able to film it in use. Maybe instead of dumping dud trains at Gloucester Road this will be done at High St Ken? That is, if Circle line trains can access the bay platforms (I am not sure if this is so) and if they are not needed for other services.
As it has not been mentioned I assume that the bay platform at Plaistow is being retained? It too does not seem to be used very much, nowadays.
Simon
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 20:58:08 GMT
I recall the w/b Circle to District track proving to have been very useful during weekend engineering works last year. I was also able to film it in use. Maybe instead of dumping dud trains at Gloucester Road this will be done at High St Ken? That is, if Circle line trains can access the bay platforms (I am not sure if this is so) and if they are not needed for other services. Not at the moment anyway, and I believe a platform is being taken out at High St. They can, however, go to Triangle Sidings. |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2016 21:13:53 GMT
Taking out a platform at HSK is silly. HSK is heavily used in times of disruption to get trains back on time. And if the Olympia shuttle is running, there will be no other platform to do it. Where will they reverse a late running Edgware Road train for example?
In terms of accessing Triangle sidings from Gloucester Road, does this not require the train to go to HSK then reverse?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 21:17:33 GMT
Taking out a platform at HSK is silly. HSK is heavily used in times of disruption to get trains back on time. And if the Olympia shuttle is running, there will be no other platform to do it. Where will they reverse a late running Edgware Road train for example? In terms of accessing Triangle sidings from Gloucester Road, does this not require the train to go to HSK then reverse? You're right  But Triangle sidings can be reached from the Circle line, whereas the bays currently cannot. I can't remember the details of what's planned for HSK, but I'm fairly confident platform 4 was for the chop the last I heard. Fairly confident  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 21:21:24 GMT
Your confidence is correct
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2016 21:25:44 GMT
Did I imagine seeing a document which summarised all the SSL changes?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 10, 2016 4:50:15 GMT
I can't remember the details of what's planned for HSK, but I'm fairly confident platform 4 was for the chop the last I heard. Fairly confident Platform 4 is staying, although the point layout immediately west will be rationalised, so that trains departing pfm.4 will have come all the way back to the Triangle sidings area to resume the WB track, as 9A/9B points are removed. |
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Post by stapler on Apr 10, 2016 7:21:33 GMT
Is there any definitive news on Museum sidings?
Is the intention at Mansion House to sell off the trackbed of the present inner rail/EB to some property developer, as they did in the 80s with the rest of the Victorian layout?
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 10, 2016 8:31:02 GMT
I understand that the disused platform at South Kensington will be returned to use at some point in the upgrade.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 8:49:34 GMT
The disused platform saga as nothing to do with the upgrade.
The escalators which go down to the Picc are in desperate need for refurbishment and to allow access to the Picc the stairs in the middle of the District & Circle platforms will be used as a alternative normal route.
The LFB had raised concerns on the vast of people who would need to be evacuated in case of a emergency. LU have come up with a idea to reinstate the E/B disused platform to try and ease congestion and have another emergency exit at the other end of the station via some temporary stairs similar to what happened at Sloane Square a few backs when the Chelsea flower show was on.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 10, 2016 8:53:31 GMT
Is there any definitive news on Museum sidings? Acton Town, or British Museum siding ? Is the intention at Mansion House to sell off the trackbed of the present inner rail/EB to some property developer, as they did in the 80s with the rest of the Victorian layout? The existing EB/IR platform will remain in use at Mansion House, the entry track will be smoothed slightly with the removal of the bay. |
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But Triangle sidings can be reached from the Circle line, whereas the bays currently cannot.
