Q stock to run again?

Thanks very much Chris W for your rundown on why it isn’t a good idea - I do genuinely like to get advice from those who I can learn from and Chris M: spot on, with my lack of knowledge I presumed very little had to be done - my idea really is better summaried as ‘a drag with passengers and fancy locomotives’. As for being a billionaire, although that would be lovely, I’m sure by that if that were ever to happen (it’s not) the Q Stock will be long completed and even the standard stock may be back up and running. Possibly even the CO/CP at Quainton. Or the T Stock...

On a serious note though, I shall refrain from bothering anyone else with my ideas in future.

Thanks again Chris W, I will definitely carry on thinking for sure, maybe even one day I may actually think of something good 😀

Back to what’s actually happening, which of the trailers is going to be used in the 3 car set? I’m going to presume it’s Q35 trailer 08063 though I have no grounds for that...

Impractical unless you happened to have a withdrawn 2-car Rail Adhesion set available...

For anything to run on LU metals during non engineering hours, every car has to be braked.

Cheaper? Almost certainly.
Fewer compatibility problems? Not necessarily - new build would be designed from the ground up to be compatible with what is being hauled and with the signalling system(s) it would be used for running under (it would be pointless otherwise) including matching performance profiles where possible, whereas with existing stock it really depends on what is used.

The problems of compatability with various stocks are are not insurmountable. The most obvious differences between Q and later stock is that Q stock is car stock, designed to run as individual cars formed to make a train using Ward couplers; it has everything working from line volts except door controls and certain driving controls. Braking systems are much the same as later stock, a standard Westinghouse air brake and the earlier A type EP brake. It has separate jumper cables and air pipes between cars. Later stock is "unit" stock, permanently coupled in 2,3 or 4 car units with bar couplers at inner ends and Wedgelock couplers at outer ends. These carry not only the physical mechanism to couple the trains together but have the electrical and air connections. These are totally incompatible with Ward couplers.

However, with the Q stock being extensively rebuilt with modern low voltage wiring for the lights and control circuits, it would be possible to make it electrically compatible with later stock providing it could be fitted with Wedglock couplers on the outer ends.

The same sort of problems will be encountered with BR SUB stock and EP-type units. SUBs have everything working from line volts, no EP brake, just Westinghouse, and no buckeye couplers. That would not stop a SUB being coupled to an EP unit using the screw coupler, air brake extension pipes and hauling the lot with a suitable locomotive. It would not be possible to control a SUB from an EP unit and vice versa.

I'm also aware that district stock carried an emergency Ward to Wedglock coupling adaptor for emergency use. But these did not have any facility to enable a through brake pipe or control wires. It was a pure mechanical device and very heavy when it had to be deployed!

Once converted to sidings, the former National Rail bays at Moorgate may be an option. Kensington Olympia may also be on a day there is no LU service to that station.

If you approach it from a point of view of "This can't work" then obviously it will never work. If you look at it from a perspective of "How can we make this work?" then it will happen. Is the non-availability of one stabling berth on one day when there may or may not be disruption really a show-stopper? I'm not a service controller so I can't say for certain, but my gut instinct is no. Some locations will have a higher impact than others of course, but with adequate planning and coordination - perhaps it would happen on a day when there is a reduce service in operation for other reasons. For example if the District line is going to be closed one weekend due to work at Hanger Lane junction but no work is being carried out at the station, the heritage units could spend a day or two in platform 8 at Ealing Broadway arriving shortly before the last train on the Friday and leave around the time of the first train on the Monday.

If I were tasked with making this idea work I would run the heritage cars on the outside of the formation (assuming wedgelocks could replace the solid bars) and in an ideal world the centre motor cars would be controlled from the heritage coach cabs via some sort of console connected in some way (wireless maybe?) to the control equipment inside the motor cars.

Just as an example let’s say the powered unit in question is a 3 car double ended D Stock in the formation DM-UNDM-DM (the use of D Stock is just hypothetical, the powered unit could be anything). The central car (and possibly the DMs if needed) would have extra compressors retrofitted in the passenger saloons to provide air for the whole formation and the A and C stock DMs would be retrofitted with wedgelocks on the inner ends and equipment to give them the same braking curve as the D Stock. The motors within the C and A stocks would be somehow isolated.

The formation therefore would be DT(A Stock) - DM(D Stock) - UNDM(D Stock) - DM(D Stock) - DT(C Stock)

I’m not sure about tractive effort and air requirements but let’s say only 1 D Stock DM and the D stock UNDM had to be fitted with compressors, you then have 3 cars of 3 different stocks to let passengers travel in. Again just a theory but if for some reason the met line RAT could temporarily be used for this it could save some money (still a lot to be spent I know) but if this did somehow worked it would be a perfect example of my idea.

@luacton I see... thank you very much for taking the time to highlight the issues to my ideas; I do find it rather insightful to say the least, although I think it is time for me to call it a day with my hybrid train idea. On a side note however, is 6110 still being kept as part of the project?

Carto Metro shows one at Dagenham East



I assume you mean the siding at West Ham which opened, according to Carto Metro, in 2011.

High Street Ken especially platform 3 is used quite regularly outside early mornings and late at night. Platform 4 is only really used during the day as little as possible as the staircase leading to the concourse is quite narrow.

Putting trains or train cars in places where little action goes on is not a good thing especially for security and vandalism, it’s really not practical.