class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 4, 2016 12:43:46 GMT
Arriving at Chancery Lane, the first train was listed as 'Special'. Normally I find this is just and ordinary train, perhaps terminating somewhere unusual.
However, in this instance, after a couple of minutes there was a sort of roaring growl from the tunnel that got lot louder and louder until the front of an engineering loco appeared. This made its way slowly through the station followed by around six wagons of old sleepers and ballast, before another engineering loco made up the rear of the train.
Despite a wide and varied range of activities over the weekend, I think this was the high spot (sad, or what?), as I had never expected to see an engineering loco working, let alone a pair coming through a station.
I noticed a driver in the rear loco - I presume it's not possible to control both locos in from one cab in such a configuration. Can anyone explain how control of the rear loco is handled in these situations, and why they did not run the two locos as a double header?
Thread title amended by superteacher for clarity.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 4, 2016 12:55:21 GMT
I think that engineering trains on LU are always run with locomotives at either end journeys to many engineering sites require one or more reversals en route. As time is not unlimited they run with a driver in both cabs for quick turnarounds, the one at the front controlling the whole train.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 4, 2016 13:44:29 GMT
National Rail have a similar practice, works trains are top & tailed to facilitate easy shuffling around. On NR the rear loco may be dead, which resulted in this unfortunate incident a few years back. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 4, 2016 14:13:04 GMT
I would expect the loco on the Underground to be dead too, unless all the wagons have through wiring to allow multiple unit control. Unlike the NR incident, though, I would imagine the whole train would be braked.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 4, 2016 14:17:58 GMT
What was the cause of the Northern Line incident again?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 4, 2016 15:33:45 GMT
I would expect the loco on the Underground to be dead too, unless all the wagons have through wiring to allow multiple unit control. Unlike the NR incident, though, I would imagine the whole train would be braked. It was definitely operational. Those things are not quiet! That's what made the experience of seeing them so notable. The person in the rear loco was certainly in a driving 'attitude': sitting upright with an arm out in front of himself. Obviously I couldn't tell exactly what he was doing. I do remember a couple of weeks ago reading an article that mentioned dual loco NR working where the controls could not be coupled, and a second driver was present in the second loco, in constant communication with the lead driver. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 4, 2016 16:27:36 GMT
Unlike the NR incident, though, I would imagine the whole train would be braked. That NR loco was meant to be braked, the rest of the train stopped when the drawhook failed, the loco was set up incorrectly so had no air pressure to apply the demanded brakes. |
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Post by brigham on Feb 4, 2016 16:32:16 GMT
That runaway loco must have been 'dead', unbraked and unmanned. Is that covered in the Rule Book?
2-5-5 to box in rear!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 4, 2016 18:09:46 GMT
That runaway loco must have been 'dead', unbraked and unmanned. Is that covered in the Rule Book? ! Dead and unmanned are ok - the error was to leave it in a condition where it was unbraked - if I understood the report the air couplings to the rear wagon should have been open, so that when the train divided, air pressure would be lost through the broken pipe and the brakes applied. If you do have to run a train with unbraked vehicles, (the old class 9, unfitted goods) there must be a brake van at the rear, with a guard on board to operate them. If I recall the Northern Line incident, the errant vehicle had a "right side" brake failure. The brakes then had to be disabled to get it moving. |
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Post by philthetube on Feb 4, 2016 21:58:31 GMT
engineering trains hove to be double ended if working in tunnels as there is no access from end to end if it becomes necessary to change direction, this can occur as an unplanned move, so always.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 4, 2016 22:19:57 GMT
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Post by fish7373 on Feb 4, 2016 22:35:06 GMT
![]() ![]() All the wagons have through wiring to allow multiple unit control. and the whole train is braked. But very often the multiple jumps are not plugged in they will have two drivers one at each end one loco pulling and the other one pushing. the back drive will look at the duplex gauge when to shut off power. FISH7373 81C NFP |
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Post by dagdave on Feb 5, 2016 9:57:26 GMT
Another reason is the the rear driver can observe the load as it is transported
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 5, 2016 10:46:22 GMT
Another reason is the the rear driver can observe the load as it is transported All trains used to have someone at the rear of a train for that purpose. They were called guards. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2016 16:34:07 GMT
On the underground, its a requirement I believe for the driver to be at the front of a train, which is why they top and tail. Battery locos can haul a very heavy load, and sometimes you can find you are underpowered so you need to power from both ends. Very rarely will a driver be sitting in the cab facing the load unless there is a someone else on board.
Brakes can be controlled from either cab on a loco or from either loco as the train is though braked (you will notice it can take a while for them to get going from stopped as they charge the train line up). One loco can not power the other loco, which is why you can commonly see a driver in the rear cab also powering. You can cut out pairs of motors in the situation of a fault (1 and 3 or 2 and 4) so this could have been why both locos were powering but its unlikely.
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