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Post by phil on Oct 22, 2015 17:34:00 GMT
Err, what you have just said doesn't add up. If SHS was always a zone 1 station for all journeys when the original ELL extension (to Dalston & Highbury) was opened, there would have been no need to mention it (let alone alter the arrangements) in connection with the later extension to Clapham Junction (which post dates the original extension by a good couple of years). Thus while I don't dispute that SHS has been in zone 1 ever since the Clapham extension was given the go ahead, is it not possible that before that, if you travelled over the ELL but did not alight at SHS you would not be charged for a zone 1 journey. Makes perfect sense to me. The ELL didn't reopen with a full service until May 2010. The current Mayor spent a fair amount of time in the first half of his first term trying to get the agreement over ELL Phase 2 which was a manifesto commitment. AFAIAA the line opened with SHS in Zone 1 and requiring Zone 1 tickets to travel in, out and across it. Looking through the London Reconnections archive of articles on the East London Line and South London Line it's evident that the agreements to build the ELL Phase 2 and its conditions were in place *before* the ELL Phase 1 opened. Searching in Google for "East London Line Phase 2" brings up this letter from Ian Brown which sets out that agreement was reached in 2009 to build ELL Phase 2. Note the letter is a Word document download. We all know the agreement included SHS being in Zone 1 to avoid revenue abstraction from other TOCs. Look at the date of the letter and compare with that for ELL Phase 1 opening. If you wish to disbelieve what I'm saying then that's fine but I don't know what else I can do to "prove" the point about the fare zone treatment. Firstly my belief was that although phase two was always planned to happen by the mayor / TfL, moves to get the necessary finance out of the DfT etc only started after phase one had opened and it wasn't particularly easy to finalise . In effect at the time phase one opened it was by no means certain phase two would occur so quickly after phase one. In such a situation - which I accept didn't happen - then it is entirely plausible that fares policy could have been revised between phases. Secondly, its not a case of 'wishing to disbelieve' as you put it - rather a case of my recollections surrounding the position regarding SHS (note Chris M recalls there being quite a lot of discussion over the issue at the time phase one was under construction) appears to be incorrect, as demonstrated by your evidence, particularly the key dates. I am therefore quite willing to accept that SHS has always been in zone 1.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 22, 2015 22:42:17 GMT
Hopefully not too far off topic. Just noticed the speed limit inbound/ outbound to Clapham Junction Platforms 1 and 2 has been raised from 10 mph to 15 mph. A 50% increase in speed is good going but 15mph is still snail slow! Simon
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Post by jpd888 on Oct 22, 2015 23:37:20 GMT
As someone who lived in Forest Hill and worked in Moorgate when the Overground took over the East London Line in 2010, I can indeed confirm that Shoreditch High Street Station has always been a zone 1 station, much to my annoyance at the time. Thus my desire to save £60 a month led to an intricate knowledge of the backstreets of Spitalfields, and a love-hate relationship with the 205 bus... We've now parted ways and have both since decided to avoid Moorgate you'll be pleased to hear!
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Post by peterc on Oct 23, 2015 7:59:49 GMT
It was a long time ago now and I can't remember the details but I have had a journey via SHS that didn't charge me for zone 1 dispite the fare finder showing the higher fare.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 23, 2015 8:24:43 GMT
It was a long time ago now and I can't remember the details but I have had a journey via SHS that didn't charge me for zone 1 dispite the fare finder showing the higher fare. Canonbury or Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction is charged NOT via Zone 1 even if you go round via SHS.
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Post by peterc on Oct 23, 2015 17:52:21 GMT
The journey was to south east London
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Post by longhedge on Oct 24, 2015 13:01:06 GMT
I remember a recent official poster at Clapham Junction clearly advising that if you travel via Shoreditch High Street, you MUST have a ticket with Zone 1 validity. It did not state any exceptions. (Although I have recollections that initially in 2010 there were exceptions for some specific local journeys that would not allow breaking a journey at SHS)
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 24, 2015 13:43:26 GMT
I remember a recent official poster at Clapham Junction clearly advising that if you travel via Shoreditch High Street, you MUST have a ticket with Zone 1 validity. There is a difference here between Travelcards, where you have pre-paid for validity in certain zones, and point to point on Oyster, which calculates a fare which may, or may not, correspond to the set of zones you actually travelled through. P2P usually only knows where you started and ended your journey - if your ticket is checked en route all they can tell is that you have an unresolved journey. It is even possible - because I have inadvertently done it - to have a journey from Z1 to Z3 and back to Z1 by a different route counted as a Z1-only journey (I assume the system treated the out-and-in within Z3 as an OSI and disregarded both, thus only looked at the Z1-Z1 fare)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 24, 2015 17:53:28 GMT
I know I once had a Debden (Zone 6) - Canary Wharf DLR (Zone 2) - Canary Wharf Jubilee (Zone 2) - South Woodford (Zone 4) journey charged as a single Zone 6 to Zone 4 journey on Oyster. I was collecting something from a shop at Canary Wharf and this evidently took less time than the OSI between Canary Wharf station allows for.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 24, 2015 17:59:43 GMT
I know I once had a Debden (Zone 6) - Canary Wharf DLR (Zone 2) - Canary Wharf Jubilee (Zone 2) - South Woodford (Zone 4) journey charged as a single Zone 6 to Zone 4 journey on Oyster. I was collecting something from a shop at Canary Wharf and this evidently took less time than the OSI between Canary Wharf station allows for. Mine was Moorgate to Tottenham Hale via H&I, back to St Pauls via Stratford (or possibly Liverpool Street, I forget). The OSI between Victoria Line and Anglia apparently didn't register. From experiences on other trips, it would appear that it wouldn't work if you started and finished at the same station, or left and entered by the same barrier line at the far end (as that wouldn't register as an OSI).
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 25, 2015 1:49:50 GMT
I remember getting a confused look from an RPI after they gripped me in zone five on a train headed towards town when I had touched in in zone two. My card was still valid, so they moved on to the scallies skulking at the far end of the train.
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