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Post by superteacher on Oct 29, 2015 14:28:13 GMT
It's a shame that the simplest schemes (like reinstating the chord) are often the most difficult to make into a reality. Croxley link is in danger of going down that route!
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Post by stapler on Oct 29, 2015 16:20:46 GMT
Another element of connectivity is the NE Enfield Action Plan, which whilst heavily slanted to the notorious A1055-A121 Link Road did pay regard to east-west public transport connections. We are awaiting the inspector's report on that.
Personally, I would have thought STAR would be richer with both spurs at Hall Farm Jc reinstated, on a single line basis. There was no good reason, other than the scrap value of the rails, to remove either of them in the 60s. Chingford to Stratford is a very busy bus corridor, but a tedious journey that way; Walthamstow is amajor and growing centre.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2015 18:17:18 GMT
Another element of connectivity is the NE Enfield Action Plan, which whilst heavily slanted to the notorious A1055-A121 Link Road did pay regard to east-west public transport connections. We are awaiting the inspector's report on that. Personally, I would have thought STAR would be richer with both spurs at Hall Farm Jc reinstated, on a single line basis. There was no good reason, other than the scrap value of the rails, to remove either of them in the 60s. Chingford to Stratford is a very busy bus corridor, but a tedious journey that way; Walthamstow is amajor and growing centre. It seems to me that the former pressure from Waltham Forest council to get the link restored has pretty much dissipated. I can remember when it featured fairly regularly on the council's transport wish list but they seem to have given up. I've struggled to find any minutes of the Council's transport liaison meetings which I suspect means they've stopped having them. I expect the experience with getting Lea Bridge Station built may exhaust the Council's enthusiasm for funding any more rail schemes. I am sure I have said this before but I did see TfL's various business case numbers for STAR, Hall Farm curve and STAR + Hall Farm. Unfortunately STAR won out as the best option overall. What was a £25m scheme years ago is almost certainly vastly more expensive now and STAR causes complications with adding junctions and more services. It would be lovely if the signalling scheme for STAR south of T Hale could be designed to accommodate a future Hall Farm curve but I expect that's a pipe dream. Putting more services into Stratford post STAR opening will put huge pressure on platform capacity thus making subsequent schemes vastly more expensive as they'll have to carry the cost of extra platforms / signalling capacity. I agree Chingford / Walthamstow to Stratford is a tedious journey by bus and the 58, 69, 97 and 158 buses are all ridiculously busy on the broad corridor from Chingford / Walthamstow to Leyton / Stratford. The problem is that a rail service would not really serve people in Leyton so an intensive bus service would still be needed. Obviously catchment areas near stations would see transfer from bus to rail if a sufficiently frequent service was provided. The only way I can see Hall Farm curve being built is if it becomes a key transport issue for the next Mayor. As many candidates are fixated on housing and not transport and certainly NOT transport in Waltham Forest then I don't see any propsect of a Mayoral boost. Sorry. |
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Post by phil on Oct 30, 2015 4:37:33 GMT
Another element of connectivity is the NE Enfield Action Plan, which whilst heavily slanted to the notorious A1055-A121 Link Road did pay regard to east-west public transport connections. We are awaiting the inspector's report on that. Personally, I would have thought STAR would be richer with both spurs at Hall Farm Jc reinstated, on a single line basis. There was no good reason, other than the scrap value of the rails, to remove either of them in the 60s. Chingford to Stratford is a very busy bus corridor, but a tedious journey that way; Walthamstow is amajor and growing centre. Reinstating rails is the easy bit - finding places for the trains to go without getting in the way of other services is most definitely not. I believe that one of the limitations as regards the Hall Farm curve is the ability of Stratfords platforms 10 and 11 to turn round many more services from the north, with Stansted or the Lea valley being far more of a prority when it comes to destination. Even after Crossrail and any remodelling of Bow junction the resultant small increase in capacity on the approaches to Liverpool St has far better uses than Chingford via Stratford. |
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Post by stapler on Oct 30, 2015 9:18:41 GMT
Where the trains are to go is a serious point.
Is there still formation for Platform 12 at Stratford? 11 was surely double sided when the Loughtons as well as the Cambridges used to go through.
The big difference bewenn 1967, when Hall Farm-Lea Bridge was lifted, and now, is that then Stratford was a decaying inner industrial area, now it's the centre of the universe.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 30, 2015 10:05:24 GMT
Where the trains are to go is a serious point. Is there still formation for Platform 12 at Stratford? 11 was surely double sided when the Loughtons as well as the Cambridges used to go through. The big difference bewenn 1967, when Hall Farm-Lea Bridge was lifted, and now, is that then Stratford was a decaying inner industrial area, now it's the centre of the universe. Indeed, Stratford has changed beyond all recognition. Back in the 70's, most main line trains didn't stop there. |
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Post by stapler on Oct 30, 2015 14:19:46 GMT
That's quite right, ST, and of course Stratford-Tottenham Hale was actually closed to passenger services for a decade or so. 30 yrs ago the old cafe on plats 6-7-8 was a good place for locospotting, save that the EMUs coming into 8 would usually shield Norwiches etc coming through at speed. The idea of a Norwich stopping there (except for a signal) sounded very far fetched. The building in the apex was half-demolished for many years.
Looks as if it'd be a real squeeze to get in an additional terminating platform from the Coppermill/Lea Bridge direction now....
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Post by peterc on Oct 30, 2015 21:44:17 GMT
I remember once when the toilets on 6-7-8 were out of order following signs to the old station where there was a gents designed for coping with a trainload of desparate day trippers. Now you have to leave the station and treck half way through Westfield if caught short.
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Post by stapler on Oct 30, 2015 22:09:15 GMT
According to the NR map, there are unisex w.c.s adjacent to Platform 17. But since the same map shows the now closed LU ticket office, Peterc may be right.
It'd probably be easier to nip on a London bound Mk3 in platform 9, the time it takes to dispatch them!
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Oct 30, 2015 22:26:28 GMT
starting to veer off topic a bit. Let's keep discussion about the thread subject. Stratford history should be started in a new thread should you want one
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Post by Chris M on Oct 30, 2015 22:29:10 GMT
There are toilets at Stratford - I remember hearing or reading something about them being (re)opened earlier this year or possibly late last year. The TfL website is consistent that the facilities do include toilets, but I can't find anything saying where they are.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 30, 2015 22:35:43 GMT
In those days I used to aim for the hourly Colchester train if travelling off-peak. Liverpool Street - Ilford non stop in 11 minutes one direction, 12 mins the other direction.
With Crossrail going to stop at all existing stations plus an extra station (Whitechapel) my journeys will never be so fast again. In fact the journey times will probably be approximately twice as long.
Oh and the Class 312's had clear glass screens behind the train drivers, so I could enjoy a forward view. (Except the time when a 309 was used instead, but then there were the side corridor compartments and buffet car with wooden marquetry to enjoy).
As for Stratford platform 12, I thought that still exists? Maybe the NLL Overgrounds could be extended a little? When at Stratford they point in the 'right' direction!
Simon
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Post by snoggle on Oct 30, 2015 22:56:26 GMT
There are toilets at Stratford - I remember hearing or reading something about them being (re)opened earlier this year or possibly late last year. The TfL website is consistent that the facilities do include toilets, but I can't find anything saying where they are. There used to be LU managed toilets in the Jub Line concourse area behind the escalators / stairs / lifts. I think they've been closed down due to damage with only an accessible toilet, controlled by RADAR key access, being left. You need to contact staff to use it. If there are other public toilets in the station I've never found them. I used to be Contract Perf Mgr for JNP stations and the toilets at Stratford were very problematic. JLE stations are not renowned for their drainage! Far too many persistent and troublesome faults with the expected level of complaints from staff about toilets and drains. Public toilets were forever being vandalised and damaged - no wonder they've been closed down. |
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Post by phil on Oct 31, 2015 3:49:56 GMT
As for Stratford platform 12, I thought that still exists? Maybe the NLL Overgrounds could be extended a little? When at Stratford they point in the 'right' direction! Simon Sorry, my bad, I got my numbers muddled up. I should have said platforms 11 and 12 not 10 and 11 in my previous post. as for extending the Overground platforms - there is the little matter of the case that contains HS1 to consider. Basically if you look at the northern end of platforms 11 and 12 there is no space to use the existing bridge over HS1. From satellite imagery it looks as though it is just about wide enough to extend platforms 11 and 12 northwards (I believe these platforms can only take 8 car EMUs at present) but nothing more. |
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Post by stapler on Oct 31, 2015 7:52:41 GMT
Good idea to move thread, mods!
The extension north of 11-12-possible 12A - would the crossing be a big problem for platform extension? Some are pretty lightweight elsewhere?
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Post by Dom K on Oct 31, 2015 13:49:03 GMT
Good idea to move thread, mods! The extension north of 11-12-possible 12A - would the crossing be a big problem for platform extension? Some are pretty lightweight elsewhere? |
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Post by Dom K on Nov 19, 2015 9:37:39 GMT
So some updates
At Tottenham Hale
Alongside Ferry Lane estate trees being cut down to make way for tracked widening and 3rd and later 4th track.
At Lea Bridge Station
Platform on Eastbound (towards Stratford) taking shape with platform edge tactile paving being installed too.
A tall structure stands by the bridge on the Tottenham Hale bound platform, this could either be a lift shaft or a footbridge support, although I think it's a lift shaft. No platform laying has taken place on this side yet
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Post by Dom K on Nov 24, 2015 9:37:55 GMT
Update:
At Tottenham Hale
All the trees that lined up between Ferry Lane estate and the railway have now gone! Looks a lot different!
At Lea Bridge
A lot more of the platform edge completed towards Stratford. Left shaft now in place on same platform. I can only guess they will put a footbridge or something in. We shall see
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Post by snoggle on Nov 26, 2015 18:53:14 GMT
The view looking south at T Hale, from Ferry Lane bridge, is startlingly different. Residents on the western edge of the estate must be getting amazing amounts of daylight with all the trees gone. At present there is an enormous pile of sawdust near T Hale too.
It'll be interesting to see how Network Rail change the brick wall boundary and where it moves to.
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Post by miff on Nov 27, 2015 20:32:29 GMT
The footbridge & lift shafts are now in place at Lea Bridge Rd. The staircases to the platforms are still to be done.
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Post by slugabed on Nov 28, 2015 21:01:32 GMT
Sadly,the work at Ferry Lane also seems to have included removing the remaining four Trolleybus traction standards....possibly the last in London(?)...only the stumps remain.
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Post by melikepie on Jan 6, 2016 12:27:29 GMT
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Post by patrickb on Jan 7, 2016 0:11:06 GMT
Very nice. I often pass the site when travelling on the 56. That whole area needs a lot of redevelopment as it's currently a very drab part of London. Hopefully the station will boost housing and transport.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 7, 2016 11:05:20 GMT
Very nice. I often pass the site when travelling on the 56. That whole area needs a lot of redevelopment as it's currently a very drab part of London. Hopefully the station will boost housing and transport. I'd argue the last thing it needs is redevelopment. It looks a bit drab because there is a lot of light industry nearby that provides convenient employment for people and allows small businesses to survive. Those jobs need preserving not kicking out of the area because greedy developers come in and shove up land values, rents and build houses completely out of scale with the area at prices no one in Waltham Forest can afford. We really need to be careful about this ridiculous over reliance on development to justify transport development. Hopefully Lea Bridge station will improve access to local employment at Lea Bridge as well as jobs elsewhere in north and east London but not trigger a land grab by greedy people. |
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Post by arun on Jan 7, 2016 11:41:11 GMT
PatrickB - I would say that you might need to be careful what you wish for - The whole length of Lea Bridge Road from just about Argall Way westwards to where the land rises approaching Clapton Road is part of the flood plain of the River Lea. Merely channelling parts of the Lea navigation between concrete runways and spills has not changed that one iota. Apart from a period from the end of WW2 to around 1956 when Millfields was temporarily filled with prefabs to house Blitz survivors, the area has long been know to be unsuitable for housing. Indeed, this area extends North beyond Coppermill Junction. The area might look initially attractive to developers but there are good reasons why its alternative names include Walthamstow Marsh and Hackney Marsh!
Arun
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Post by snoggle on Jan 7, 2016 13:54:56 GMT
PatrickB - I would say that you might need to be careful what you wish for - The whole length of Lea Bridge Road from just about Argall Way westwards to where the land rises approaching Clapton Road is part of the flood plain of the River Lea. Merely channelling parts of the Lea navigation between concrete runways and spills has not changed that one iota. Apart from a period from the end of WW2 to around 1956 when Millfields was temporarily filled with prefabs to house Blitz survivors, the area has long been know to be unsuitable for housing. Indeed, this area extends North beyond Coppermill Junction. The area might look initially attractive to developers but there are good reasons why its alternative names include Walthamstow Marsh and Hackney Marsh! Arun Good point but hasn't stopped those poncy flats being built canalside near the Lea Valley Ice Rink. And all those lovely reservoirs too! Even where I live is an old flood plain further up in Walthamstow - I had no idea until I read an info board in a local park. If anyone ever blows up the Lea Valley reservoirs or underground water reservoirs at Waterworks Corner then we're doomed as is Blackhorse Road tube and the Vic Line tunnels. |
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Post by stapler on Jan 7, 2016 15:40:01 GMT
The Lea certainly did habitually flood, and it was Sir George Monoux who built a causeway across the marshes in the 16th cent so he could reach the city in safety. Also, of course, the name Chingford is from caeg-inga-ford, the ford over the Lea by the homes of dwellers on stilts, so I suspect any poncey flats to be built near the reopened station might also be on piles, with basement/ground level parking (cf Tottenham Hale)
Here endeth the history lesson.
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 7, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
The Lea certainly did habitually flood, and it was Sir George Monoux who built a causeway across the marshes in the 16th cent so he could reach the city in safety. Also, of course, the name Chingford is from caeg-inga-ford, the ford over the Lea by the homes of dwellers on stilts, so I suspect any poncey flats to be built near the reopened station might also be on piles, with basement/ground level parking (cf Tottenham Hale) Here endeth the history lesson. Suspicions abound that poncey-flat developers will more likely question whether Sir George Monoux is in either their focus group or a team member of their blue-sky thinking department. I don't think they run to dirty-brown water thinking departments. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 18:46:00 GMT
Very nice. I often pass the site when travelling on the 56. That whole area needs a lot of redevelopment as it's currently a very drab part of London. Hopefully the station will boost housing and transport. I'd argue the last thing it needs is redevelopment. It looks a bit drab because there is a lot of light industry nearby that provides convenient employment for people and allows small businesses to survive. Those jobs need preserving not kicking out of the area because greedy developers come in and shove up land values, rents and build houses completely out of scale with the area at prices no one in Waltham Forest can afford. We really need to be careful about this ridiculous over reliance on development to justify transport development. Hopefully Lea Bridge station will improve access to local employment at Lea Bridge as well as jobs elsewhere in north and east London but not trigger a land grab by greedy people. You're trying to have your cake and eat it- complaining of high house prices 'and' more housing being built! London needs loads of new homes for all pockets! Thankfully every serious Mayoral candidate recognises that! It It is also regrettable that you pepper your comments with emotive phrases such as 'land grab' and 'greedy developers'. Try 'house builders' - much the same today as the people who (probably) built your home. |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 7, 2016 19:58:20 GMT
I'd argue the last thing it needs is redevelopment. It looks a bit drab because there is a lot of light industry nearby that provides convenient employment for people and allows small businesses to survive. Those jobs need preserving not kicking out of the area because greedy developers come in and shove up land values, rents and build houses completely out of scale with the area at prices no one in Waltham Forest can afford. We really need to be careful about this ridiculous over reliance on development to justify transport development. Hopefully Lea Bridge station will improve access to local employment at Lea Bridge as well as jobs elsewhere in north and east London but not trigger a land grab by greedy people. You're trying to have your cake and eat it- complaining of high house prices 'and' more housing being built! London needs loads of new homes for all pockets! Thankfully every serious Mayoral candidate recognises that! It It is also regrettable that you pepper your comments with emotive phrases such as 'land grab' and 'greedy developers'. Try 'house builders' - much the same today as the people who (probably) built your home. I'm sorry you don't like my tone but I am not at all happy about the state of housing and development in London. It's gone mad in recent years and it is largely out of step with the needs of ordinary people on average wages. It is also partly designed on the unstated premise of ghettoisation - only rich people can afford to live in the newest / best developments. The current market is unsustainable - something will give at some point and there will be a very costly correction. I believe we need a publicly funded programme of housing investment that is then available at genuinely affordable rents. That is the only way, short of a massive housing market crash, that essential workers will be able to afford to settle and live in decent mixed communities. Cities only work properly with a proper viable social and economic mix. I believe London has prospered over many generations because it has broadly worked to those principles. I believe recent and current policies are possibly leading us in the opposite direction as poor people are shoved out of inner London leading to all sorts of issues - including significant transport challenges. I have yet to see any joined up policy thinking about how to start to deal with those existing challenges never mind those we face in the future. |
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