TFL & Southwark to put forward Bakerloo extension case:

Is it my imagination, but I seem to have picked up the Daily Mail by mistake?

Could always reopen the old station on the Blackfriars line?

Too far away (Walworth station would be better) and the line is overcrowded as it is - with no prospect of either improving frequency or train length due to constraints at Blackfrairs, Herne Hill and Wimbledon.

Yes, but Camberwell Green is over half-a-mile away from a station. Which is Denmark Hill.

So called because it's on a hill.

Fine to walk down to it in the morning.

Not so fine walking back up from it in the evening, especially when wet.

Also, the Aylesbury Estate is the only bit in that Bermuda Triangle on DG's site with habitation-most of the rest is Burgess Park. Camberwell Green is surrounded on all sides by housing.

It's at the bottom of Denmark Hill. Looking at the contours, the street outside Denmark Hill station is on the 20metre contour, 15 metres higher than Camberwell Green. Given that the track is in a cutting at Denmark Hill and on a viaduct at Camberwell, the difference in height between the actual track levels will be even less.

Camberwell's only station at the moment is Loughborough junction but what about two branch's, one going to Camberwell and the other though old Kent road to Hayes.

My work involves me in things that expose me to inside knowledge of this. There will be no Camberwell link. It is there for political reasons. Neither TFL nor Southwark want anything to do with rejecting Camberwell, so they are leaving it up to the Treasury.

They may get a Thameslink station at the old Camberwell Station as a sop, plus, it is possible that Overground will interchange with Bakerloo at Old Kent Road. That is all. Old Kent Road is the route that will happen if Bakerloo goes forward because nowhere else facilitates so much housing, and developer contributions will be needed to fund the tunneling. There is a desire to create something like what has happened at Canary Wharf, with it likely that building heights will be taller than Elephant and Castle. Heights are restricted there due to protected viewing corridors.

The useful place for the station would be near Tescos on the Old Kent Road. The line could then run to Camberwell preferably a double ended station for Kings College Hospital and then head for Peckham and Lewisham.

I doubt it, to be honest.

It will be seen as an extra station stop on an already-busy line vide LO. The thinking seems to be, if you add an extra station, you need a good number of passengers to use it, but, the more that do, the more you may need more frequent trains, and you can't guarantee that easily!

It's also nowhere near Peckham Rye, but that's unimportant, because there's a good bus service past the old station site, which dates from trams being replaced by buses in 1952, the trams being the primary reason OKR went west/belly-up in the first instance in 1916.

Anything is possible but what might appear "ideal" in transport terms won't happen on the Bakerloo Line extension. Every time you add a station you add hundreds of millions of pounds to the capital cost and then incur lifetime operation and maintenance costs. While there would be revenue it's unlikely to be enough to fund a multi level interchange station at Old Kent Road. You'd also have issues about capacity on the lines into London Bridge if you add another stop. In our new upside down world of development being the sole determinant of where transport infrastructure goes then expect the bare minimum number of new stations and those that are built will be those with developer funding plus wherever the terminal station is. The only exception to my musings is probably Lewisham because it's a major traffic mode and the developers are already destroying the town centre and preventing redevelopment of the main line station so little scope for more developer contributions there but TfL could never justify NOT having a station there.

As pridley says the political demand from Southwark Council is to serve both Old Kent Rd and Camberwell *and* to get stops on Thameslink. They won't get all of that despite the fact it would make a great deal of sense. Camberwell won't be served because there's next to no opportunity to build to the skies. I think the residents in Southwark are going to get one heck of a shock whenever a decision does emerge about the Bakerloo extension and I predict there will be a lot of upset and annoyed people. The council are going to have a job on their hands managing the fall out. I'm not even convinced the Treasury will agree to fund the extension and also take CR2 forward. TfL will be forced into a choice and CR2 will win out because of the need to do something about HS2 demand at Euston. That's the killer factor in all of this with Lea Valley development and Waterloo lines capacity coming down the list somewhat.

Well yes but the issue is that the Mayor and TfL have alighted on HS2 at Euston as being both the nightmare scenario and a potential saviour for CR2. It's all political arm twisting when push comes to shove and it will be telling to see who wins. The Mayor is on his way out and you have to ask what sway he holds with Osborne if the recent events with Mrs May are any indication of cabinet level sentiment. If the numbers are as you suggest then someone possessed of half a brain at HS2 should be able to point out the flaw in TfL's case.

The Mayor has established a development zone (I forget the precise term) on OKR so there is a potential attraction for developers. It may look uninspiring now but we don't know what's going on in the background. Ah here we are - www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7327

I do feel we are in particularly unfortunate circumstances due to timing of political events - General Election just gone, Spending Review and Autumn Statement due in a few months, Mayoral Election next year, Transport Commissioner gone and likely to be replaced by new Mayor. No guarantee that Mike Brown will move from temporary to permanent Commissioner either. London is less able to fight its corner at present because of political and policy uncertainty increasing as we approach the Mayoral election. It'll be even worse in 2020 when the General and Mayoral elections are on the same date.