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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 17, 2015 22:09:28 GMT
No interchange at Kennington or Euston with the City branch No interchange at Waterloo with the Jubilee or the Drain (currently shown on Journey Planner as the quickest way from TCR to Bank!)
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 17, 2015 22:41:17 GMT
...and should Finchley Central not be shown as an interchange, with an extra 'peak hours only' dashed line for Mill Hill East, to illustrate better that it's generally just a shuttle service (like they do on the in-car diagrams)?
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Post by Chris W on Jan 18, 2015 2:41:41 GMT
A couple of you almost said (it might have been what you meant) the most obvious thing... ... and then another posts a comment in Flickr... and it was so obvious even I missed it OMG !!
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 18, 2015 5:31:51 GMT
A couple of you almost said (it might have been what you meant) the most obvious thing... ... and then another posts a comment in Flickr... and it was so obvious even I missed it OMG !! I didn't necessarily see that as an error to be honest! It's obvious it's not there, but I thought it's because the diagram only shows where one could catch a Northern Line direct from TCR...!? Surely that was the thinking behind it anyway!?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 18, 2015 13:49:29 GMT
wimblephilIf you are suggesting the City branch is missing, it shouldn't be there The practice at all stations on a branched tube line has always been to show only the stations directly accessible, and where to interchange with the other branch(es). At Ealing Broadway you will see Earls Court shown as the interchange for Wimbledon and Edgware Road, and North Acton for West Ruislip, but those branches will not appear in full. So in this case Euston should be shown as the interchange for the City branch. (Arguably there is no need to show Kennington because the recommended routes to Elephant and London Bridge are via Waterloo).
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Post by rsdworker on Jan 18, 2015 16:13:12 GMT
i was looking at lift positions - its not very clear if plans changed - the third access to northern line in new passageway shows there is 3rd stairs down to northern line but this one seems dropped from final plans also ticket hall plans changed - but we don't have a final plans to show the changes from draft
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 16:41:21 GMT
Are the lifts in service, couldn't see any on the photos?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 18, 2015 17:50:33 GMT
i was looking at lift positions - its not very clear if plans changed - the third access to northern line in new passageway shows there is 3rd stairs down to northern line but this one seems dropped from final plans also ticket hall plans changed - but we don't have a final plans to show the changes from draft None of the lifts are in service at the moment. From what I could see they are all hoarded off. It is worth saying that at the intermediate concourse level for the Northern Line there is a hoarded off part of the end wall. I assume that when opened up it will lead through to 3rd staircase / lift shaft. In terms of lift access to the Northern Line I think it may be a longish wait because if I have interpreted the plans properly there is only one lift down and that is beside the Crossrail main escalator bank. It takes you down Crossrail platform level and a connecting corridor from where there is access to the currently blocked off corridor links to the Northern Line. Could you say what you think has been changed from the plans as there are still large areas to be finished off in terms of exits, breaking through to the Central Line plus all the links to Crossrail? It all seems to make sense to me with only the ticket office area having changed and that's not unexpected given the policy change in that area.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 18:08:13 GMT
Thanks, I think the street level to ticket hall one is next to the bank of 3 escalators
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 19, 2015 6:52:51 GMT
The map is also missing the interchange for the Bakerloo at Charing X (though given it is the worst interchange of the three successive stations that the Bakerloo and Northern stop at, perhaps this was intentional)
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 19, 2015 7:00:18 GMT
wimblephilIf you are suggesting the City branch is missing, it shouldn't be there The practice at all stations on a branched tube line has always been to show only the stations directly accessible, and where to interchange with the other branch(es). At Ealing Broadway you will see Earls Court shown as the interchange for Wimbledon and Edgware Road, and North Acton for West Ruislip, but those branches will not appear in full. So in this case Euston should be shown as the interchange for the City branch. (Arguably there is no need to show Kennington because the recommended routes to Elephant and London Bridge are via Waterloo). This seems like another example of TfL's recent and increasingly sinister passion for using misleading signs to get people to take their "preferred" route rather than the most direct/convenient. The worst examples are the signs at King's X which deliberately make you walk much further than you need to interchange between the SSR and the deep level lines.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 19, 2015 7:14:55 GMT
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 19, 2015 10:20:51 GMT
wimblephilIf you are suggesting the City branch is missing, it shouldn't be there The practice at all stations on a branched tube line has always been to show only the stations directly accessible, and where to interchange with the other branch(es). At Ealing Broadway you will see Earls Court shown as the interchange for Wimbledon and Edgware Road, and North Acton for West Ruislip, but those branches will not appear in full. So in this case Euston should be shown as the interchange for the City branch. (Arguably there is no need to show Kennington because the recommended routes to Elephant and London Bridge are via Waterloo). This seems like another example of TfL's recent and increasingly sinister passion for using misleading signs to get people to take their "preferred" route rather than the most direct/convenient. The worst examples are the signs at King's X which deliberately make you walk much further than you need to interchange between the SSR and the deep level lines. I remember seeing on 'YouTube' a short series of Secrets of each Underground line, and the young man in front of the camera showed a short cut I think it was on the Victoria Line at KX to get to the Northern Line? Maybe someone has more info?
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Post by pgb on Jan 19, 2015 11:10:44 GMT
This seems like another example of TfL's recent and increasingly sinister passion for using misleading signs to get people to take their "preferred" route rather than the most direct/convenient. The worst examples are the signs at King's X which deliberately make you walk much further than you need to interchange between the SSR and the deep level lines. I remember seeing on 'YouTube' a short series of Secrets of each Underground line, and the young man in front of the camera showed a short cut I think it was on the Victoria Line at KX to get to the Northern Line? Maybe someone has more info? It's from the Piccadilly Line to the Northern Line and can be found fairly easily. It's even signed as "Northern Line". Just saves trying to fight through the escalator rush! As a friend of mine said in December - "generally the shortest route is the one that says no entry" - although I did point out that it doesn't always work!
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 19, 2015 12:17:13 GMT
I remember seeing on 'YouTube' a short series of Secrets of each Underground line, and the young man in front of the camera showed a short cut I think it was on the Victoria Line at KX to get to the Northern Line? Maybe someone has more info? It's from the Piccadilly Line to the Northern Line and can be found fairly easily. It's even signed as "Northern Line". Just saves trying to fight through the escalator rush! As a friend of mine said in December - "generally the shortest route is the one that says no entry" - although I did point out that it doesn't always work!
Thanks for the info. Hope your friend doesn't try this in the rush hour!(Images of a flattened man ala the road runner come to mind)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 14:53:06 GMT
This seems like another example of TfL's recent and increasingly sinister passion for using misleading signs to get people to take their "preferred" route rather than the most direct/convenient. The worst examples are the signs at King's X which deliberately make you walk much further than you need to interchange between the SSR and the deep level lines. I remember seeing on 'YouTube' a short series of Secrets of each Underground line, and the young man in front of the camera showed a short cut I think it was on the Victoria Line at KX to get to the Northern Line? Maybe someone has more info? It was from Geoff Marshall's excellent Secrets of the London Tube series.A very nice piece of work, however, the signed routes are generally chosen for good reasons. Obviously LU stuff do not find it amusing to make passengers walk around pointlessly around their station, nor are they part of a secret conspiracy to help us all lose a little weight, it's about crowd control. For instance, in one video Geoff shows us a very cute little shortcut at Piccadilly Circus (Bakerloo to Picc) which takes you against the flow of traffic. But even apart from this clearer example, in general, it's all about smoothing the flow of passengers through a station. If too many people took these little shortcuts there'd be chaos. So just a word of caution, really, I don't necessarily recommend taking this advice. Also, I'm not in the know, there may well be locations (maybe King's Cross is one of them) where the official route is just a bit illogical or just a bad decision, but there's generally a fair reason, such as crowd control, the width of the passageways or the presence of a lot of stairs (e.g. they get you on the lifts at Russell Square, even during this period of work on the lifts, because there are just so many stairs and they are exhausting ). I, for example, find it really annoying when they leave crowd control barriers at Holborn open, because it has the effect of allowing people to travel against the flow of traffic, i.e. at me. Ultimately, nothing sinister about this. I think it makes a lot of sense, too, not to show the whole city branch at west end branch stations, it's less clear and it's potentially misleading. The interchange alternative is a nice compromise, but ultimately not vital. A lot of research goes into the signage and helping people to find where they are and where they're going. I'm not saying they always get it right, or there's no room for improvement. However, the details of the city branch are about as much use to a passenger at TCR as are the details of the Bakerloo line. Out on the east end of the Central line, for example, the interchange approach is taken. This is to avoid confusing people, what with the loop.
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 19, 2015 15:33:19 GMT
I think once you learn the 'short cuts', you have to be wise about when to use them!
Kings Cross is one station where I do actively ignore the signs. The platforms for each line essentially sprout off a central core, so the best route to interchange between any of the lines really only requires a (fairly) short walk. As has been previously said, one reason for the signed routes is for crowd control purposes; if only the shortest route was available/signed it would be gridlock most the time and no-one would get anywhere!
The difference with the Kings Cross shortest route, as opposed to some at other stations, is that you're not really doing anything 'wrong' if you use it, it's just not highlighted for you. At some other stations the shortest route is often not available to you, due to one-way operations that better aid the flow. These, I will generally not ignore, particularly at busy times, as you'll only find yourself fighting the majority, and so you'll probably find yourself slowed anyway, whilst frustrating yourself and many others in the process!
At Green Park I generally take the escalators up to the circulating space, and then back down to whichever line I require because I hate the long walk there! Travelators such as that at Waterloo would probably better encourage the use of the longer routes between lines!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 20, 2015 2:54:34 GMT
That would be, of course, the lovely @geofftech
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 20, 2015 10:14:03 GMT
Thanks for that - they're my photos. Managed to take them without any hassle although I did wonder at one point whether a chap in the control room was going to tell me off. Quite why anyone would be surprised to see people taking snaps of a brand new station when it opens I don't know. Thanks for those excellent photos, snoggle. Glad to see from them that the original Harry Bell Measures Central Line architecture is still visible at the entrance, even with the new plastic age garbage around it. I'd personally have preferred improvements confined to downstairs, but I am realistic enough to understand that the original entrance wasn't designed for funnelling the numbers using it now into and out of TCR. On balance, it still strikes me, from your photos, by some margin as being a Tube station and not an extended greenhouse or major branch of Tescos, so I musn't grumble too much.
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Post by rsdworker on Jan 20, 2015 16:39:27 GMT
i was looking at lift positions - its not very clear if plans changed - the third access to northern line in new passageway shows there is 3rd stairs down to northern line but this one seems dropped from final plans also ticket hall plans changed - but we don't have a final plans to show the changes from draft None of the lifts are in service at the moment. From what I could see they are all hoarded off. It is worth saying that at the intermediate concourse level for the Northern Line there is a hoarded off part of the end wall. I assume that when opened up it will lead through to 3rd staircase / lift shaft. In terms of lift access to the Northern Line I think it may be a longish wait because if I have interpreted the plans properly there is only one lift down and that is beside the Crossrail main escalator bank. It takes you down Crossrail platform level and a connecting corridor from where there is access to the currently blocked off corridor links to the Northern Line. Could you say what you think has been changed from the plans as there are still large areas to be finished off in terms of exits, breaking through to the Central Line plus all the links to Crossrail? It all seems to make sense to me with only the ticket office area having changed and that's not unexpected given the policy change in that area. plans show the lift from central line gateline to intermediate level (this seems changed because there is shaft opposite control room because i saw video of ticket hall works - the lift shaft was visible on right side and also photo of hoarding) also i noticed the ticket offices as shown in plans now no longer there in photos (the wall next to ticket barriers and ticket machines was space for ticket office - i assume the space is used for pther uses like plant rooms
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Post by gantshill on Jan 22, 2015 10:25:21 GMT
I took a few photos of the emergency stairs and the Northern line platforms on 8 January, after the Central line platforms had been closed, but before the new access to the Northern line was opened. I think that these should be visible even if you are not on facebook link
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 23, 2015 22:58:03 GMT
I think that these should be visible even if you are not on facebook linkThis content is currently unavailable
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2015 0:01:53 GMT
I think that these should be visible even if you are not on facebook linkThis content is currently unavailable It is now.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 24, 2015 0:23:12 GMT
I still get the same message. I'm a rare breed #NotOnFacepest
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Post by rsdworker on Jan 24, 2015 9:37:57 GMT
its works now - i seen the photos so those areas would be sealed off with permanent walls
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 19:16:35 GMT
I just recorded a full station tour of the new TCR, and I'll post a link when I get round to uploading it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 7:16:44 GMT
Here, as promised (not viewable until 8:00 AM)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 18:28:22 GMT
Went to TCR the other day - it seems a little unfinished at the sides of the bottom of the main escalators (and notably no advertising boards/ screens on the escalators down?!!). Wider passage ways are OK, but everyone is still being funnelled down into a narrow passage to the platforms - are the platforms being spruced up? They look rather tatty in places - especially the ceilings.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 20:31:11 GMT
The unfinished part is where the lift will be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 21:04:52 GMT
Presumably the lifts won't be right at the side of the base of the escalators? The unfinished bits are like small triangles boarded up in blue at the sides of the escalators on the last few steps (when heading down). There were a few dirty water stains on the ends of the escalator islands which didn't look nice!
Saying that the ticket entrance an general concourse area look great!
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