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Post by spsmiler on Apr 26, 2019 23:24:26 GMT
Chris, thanks for showing me how to get a Twitter link to work without it automatically fetching the tweet.
I am currently editing my video footage of 230 004, one thing that came to my notice as soon as I started editing is that it sounds so loud. I did not notice the same level of noise when actually there - neither as a passenger standing next to the stationary train at a station nor when travelling on it.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 28, 2019 12:19:25 GMT
I'm going to make two films - a general film with many views is now ready to view (see below) plus a film which includes a complete station to station ride which will be better for hearing the how various sounds change during the journey.
This first film includes a still image slideshow and many 'cutaway' views, some of which I think go into a greater detail than is usual.
During my day I encountered several types of weather - including torrential rain, just when I wanted to film the train. As you will see! On a happier note, LMS steam engine 6233 Duchess of Sutherland is seen passing by the D-Train at Bedford station.
Enjoy!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 15:46:46 GMT
Sounds like the traction motors will have a hard time plus the door closing needs slowing down at the end it was a bit quick
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Apr 28, 2019 17:46:08 GMT
plus the door closing needs slowing down at the end it was a bit quick I agree - it sounds like it's being slammed! Something that interests me is the "Do not open this window" sticker. Why is that?
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 28, 2019 19:26:30 GMT
I too wondered about the reason for not opening the window.
As for the traction motors, maybe the train is heavier (diesel power pack, fuel, toilet) so they are working harder? If so, is the potential risk of motor failure higher? Also, if its harder work for a train with two DM's then how will a DM - T - DM train cope?
I wonder which versions of these trains can accelerate faster. Two car diesel powered D-Train? LU pure electric?
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
The cows are not what they seem.
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Post by futurix on Apr 28, 2019 20:04:34 GMT
Something that interests me is the "Do not open this window" sticker. Why is that? Is there air conditioning in this train?
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Post by t697 on Apr 28, 2019 22:32:27 GMT
Sounds like the traction motors will have a hard time plus the door closing needs slowing down at the end it was a bit quick If they are still using the pneumatic door operators, I think it looks like the hydraulic motion damper at the door filmed closing has partly failed or been removed.
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Post by trash80 on Apr 29, 2019 7:34:16 GMT
Chris, thanks for showing me how to get a Twitter link to work without it automatically fetching the tweet.
I am currently editing my video footage of 230 004, one thing that came to my notice as soon as I started editing is that it sounds so loud. I did not notice the same level of noise when actually there - neither as a passenger standing next to the stationary train at a station nor when travelling on it.
yes i noticed that too, i could barely hear it for real (when i travelled on it on Friday) but reviewing a video i took it seemed much louder, most odd
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Apr 29, 2019 18:47:00 GMT
Perhaps it's something to do with the sound waves? Maybe they were of a (fairly) low frequency which is harder to be heard by the human ear but makes the microphone oscillate a lot and perhaps the microphone could have amplified the sound somehow?
(Then again I could be wrong!)
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Post by 100andthirty on Apr 29, 2019 18:57:07 GMT
I suspect that the camera(s) used to capture the video run in an automatic mode that includes automatic volume control for the sound. That is normal with most amateur or, indeed many semi-pro cameras. This means that the camera tries to make everything equally loud.
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Post by geriatrix on Apr 29, 2019 19:42:44 GMT
Enjoyable film, thanks. I reckon it looks quite impressive, and I hope it's a success.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 29, 2019 23:19:10 GMT
I suspect that the camera(s) used to capture the video run in an automatic mode that includes automatic volume control for the sound. That is normal with most amateur or, indeed many semi-pro cameras. This means that the camera tries to make everything equally loud. Yes, thats right. Panasonic V700
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Post by littlejohn on May 1, 2019 18:18:45 GMT
Thank you for the video Simon. I had hoped to combine a trip on the Class 230 with a birthday visit to Bletchley Park last Saturday. Sadly I ran out of time and had to get home for a party. Another day, perhaps.
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Post by spsmiler on May 3, 2019 1:06:02 GMT
Thanks littlejohn.
Maybe you (and everyone else) would enjoy another film...
This is one of two comparison films that I am making - D-Stock / D-Train - slowing down for stations, accelerating away afterwards, arriving at a terminus station. At present this film is unlisted on YouTube - that will change when I get around to adding the video text.
What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance).
Next, full station to station rides
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Post by Red Dragon on May 3, 2019 5:51:53 GMT
Thanks littlejohn. Maybe you (and everyone else) would enjoy another film... This is one of two comparison films that I am making - D-Stock / D-Train - slowing down for stations, accelerating away afterwards, arriving at a terminus station. At present this film is unlisted on YouTube - that will change when I get around to adding the video text. What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance). Next, full station to station rides You spoil us Simon 😂 another very interesting video.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 3, 2019 7:21:40 GMT
What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance). 230s would certainly be more lively than D Stock, new AC motors; not having to drag around the dead weight of a trailer car, attached to which was a heavy compressor (or two); not having to carry the very weighty PCM Pneumatic Camshaft Mechanism and MA Motor Alternator on each motor car. The compressor and alternator are now part of the diesel engine interchangeable raft.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 11:37:31 GMT
What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance). 230s would certainly be more lively than D Stock, new AC motors; not having to drag around the dead weight of a trailer car, attached to which was a heavy compressor (or two); not having to carry the very weighty PCM Pneumatic Camshaft Mechanism and MA Motor Alternator on each motor car. The compressor and alternator are now part of the diesel engine interchangeable raft. Once you tinker a little bit with D78s, they are quite nippy. The RAT D78s prove that, and they carry more weight now that they used too. I believe weak field is taken out as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 16:15:13 GMT
What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance). 230s would certainly be more lively than D Stock, new AC motors; not having to drag around the dead weight of a trailer car, attached to which was a heavy compressor (or two); not having to carry the very weighty PCM Pneumatic Camshaft Mechanism and MA Motor Alternator on each motor car. The compressor and alternator are now part of the diesel engine interchangeable raft. After watching a couple of videos it sounds like they are still DC traction motors
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Post by bassmike on May 3, 2019 18:20:22 GMT
I thought that the idea was to use the origional motors?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 3, 2019 21:17:35 GMT
I believe weak field is taken out as well. I thought I understood "weak field", but maybe not. (I may be a physicist but some electromagnetic phenomena still seem like black magic). Doesn't it reduce the back-emf, thus improving maximum speed at the expense of low-down acceleration? If so, why would you take it out when the train is now to be used on services with much longer distances between stops?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 3, 2019 23:57:32 GMT
After watching a couple of videos it sounds like they are still DC traction motors Only prototype train 230.001 retains the original DC motors. I thought that the idea was to use the origional motors? Certainly the intention was to use the original DC motors but this was changed by VivaRail.
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Post by spsmiler on May 4, 2019 0:54:44 GMT
You spoil us Simon 😂 another very interesting video. Thanks. When the D stock was nearing its end of days (on LU) I remembered to get my camera out. Just a simple return journey mid-morning, when everything was quieter, on a route that kept me out of zone 1 and therefore cost £1.50 each way. This is the second D-Stock / D-Train Comparison film. Non-stop journeys between stations. I was fortunate in that I had filmed a personal memento in the form of a high-ish speed run between East Ham and Barking stations - not just a low speed crawl on the sections shared with Circle line trains! As far as D-Trains are concerned, this is the last of my comparison films ... for now. Who knows what I might film in North Wales, when the time is right! I expect it to be different - different livery, more (all?) doors retained, bi-lingual...
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 6:15:18 GMT
I believe weak field is taken out as well. I thought I understood "weak field", but maybe not. (I may be a physicist but some electromagnetic phenomena still seem like black magic). Doesn't it reduce the back-emf, thus improving maximum speed at the expense of low-down acceleration? If so, why would you take it out when the train is now to be used on services with much longer distances between stops? Because of the added weight, and speed limit reduction when it is in use laying sandite.
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Post by t697 on May 4, 2019 7:45:34 GMT
I thought I understood "weak field", but maybe not. (I may be a physicist but some electromagnetic phenomena still seem like black magic). Doesn't it reduce the back-emf, thus improving maximum speed at the expense of low-down acceleration? If so, why would you take it out when the train is now to be used on services with much longer distances between stops? Because of the added weight, and speed limit reduction when it is in use laying sandite. Other reasons were; - Better matching of speed capability to legacy signal overlaps on some parts of its route availability. - Reduction in the risk of motor flashover at high speed with weak field, especially on the now 750V supplied parts of the Met line. And sorry, I know this is a little off thread as the RAT is not a Vivarail D train!
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Post by cudsn15 on May 4, 2019 8:33:15 GMT
What is the line speed between East Ham & Barking?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 11:04:48 GMT
Maximum line speed is 45mph but going into the bay road at Barking its 15mph then that drops to 10mph once in the platform.
Leaving platform 3 at Barking its 30mph Leaving platform 6 at Barking its 30 mph this drops to 20mph just before the points at the bottom of the flyover.
Now these could be out of date but are from the last scale plan i have on my phone
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 4, 2019 11:24:44 GMT
- Reduction in the risk of motor flashover at high speed with weak field, especially on the now 750V supplied parts of the Met line. Seems uneccessary given that D stock ran happliy for many years on Network Rail metals supplied at 750v. Maximum line speed is 45mph but going into the bay road at Barking its 15mph then that drops to 10mph once in the platform. Leaving platform 3 at Barking its 30mph Leaving platform 6 at Barking its 30 mph this drops to 20mph just before the points at the bottom of the flyover. Now these could be out of date but are from the last scale plan i have on my phone All confirmed correct.
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North End
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Post by North End on May 4, 2019 12:53:02 GMT
- Reduction in the risk of motor flashover at high speed with weak field, especially on the now 750V supplied parts of the Met line. Seems uneccessary given that D stock ran happliy for many years on Network Rail metals supplied at 750v. The inner sections of the South Western division have historically been fed at 660V DC, because of the presence of LU trains (can’t say for definite if that included D stock but no reason to presume otherwise). The line voltage then has a progressive increase outside of Wimbledon, Richmond and Brentford on a substation-by-substation basis. I’d add the caveat that this may have changed in very recent years, with two developments - firstly the replacement of C and D stock, and secondly a NR project to separate off LU supply areas. The advent of S stock still left one problem area - the Waterloo & City Line - as being fed from a NR substation. Again this was earmarked to change if it hasn’t already.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 13:11:01 GMT
- Reduction in the risk of motor flashover at high speed with weak field, especially on the now 750V supplied parts of the Met line. Seems uneccessary given that D stock ran happliy for many years on Network Rail metals supplied at 750v. Maximum line speed is 45mph but going into the bay road at Barking its 15mph then that drops to 10mph once in the platform. Leaving platform 3 at Barking its 30mph Leaving platform 6 at Barking its 30 mph this drops to 20mph just before the points at the bottom of the flyover. Now these could be out of date but are from the last scale plan i have on my phone All confirmed correct. Sandite is normally made up of water, sand, and tiny stainless steel beads. Not so good when being splashed about everywhere. << Londonstuff:From here the thread diverged towards voltages and so a new thread was created, located here.>>
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 14, 2019 21:21:15 GMT
Went out to Bletchley for a ride today. Service entirely operated by 230s (004 and 005). Sound was a funny mixture of Ford Transit and D78 stock. (I remember my first ride on "Hastings" diesels was a similar cocktail of English Electric "whistler" and EP stock electric motor whine and compressor thuds)
Very quiet - indeed less intrusive than the Meridian I came back on from Bedford (another first for me), although that in turn was a far more pleasant experience than the mechanically/electrically similar Voyagers.
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