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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 18:09:38 GMT
Obviously it would be a lot easier to run the railway if you could get rid of either the passengers or the doors, but until that happy day... I changed at Edgware Road from a Hammersmith to a Wimbledon to-day and the passenger behind me had to force open the closing doors - fortunately she was a strong, fit lass and was able to do so without taking damage. I hear you say that if the doors were closing she shouldn't have attempted to board the train. But surely the driver should only close the doors when the train is about to depart? He didn't even have the road - the train I'd used from Baker Street departed first. I suppose there is some idea about saving money on heating, but I think that someone has lost sight of their priorities. The railway is run for its passengers, surely. Moreover, let's suppose she had been hurt - I don't think that the railway's insurers would be very impressed about trying to resist her claim. What do people think? Some years ago I used to commute from South Wimbledon to Bank. There were numerous times at Bank, when alighting, by the time passengers had stopped trying to board before those needing to alight at least 10-15 seconds would have passed. Then passengers needing to get off would try to negotiate their way past those wishing to stay on board. There were numerous occasions when the T/Op would initiate the button the close the doors with myself, having been sat behind the cab, had only stood up with a long queue of passengers also trying to alight in front of me. What would then happen for the next minute would be passengers holding the doors open for one another until we had alighted from the stop we wanted to get out at. With no passengers having successfully embarked, the same sorry story would be repeated when the next train arrived... with tensions rising ! The ultimate issue is that too many people are trying to use the services, with TfL having to find availability through increasing services on already congested routes... There is a finite amount of people that will fit into any given space... I agree. However, I am not aware of any time of day when this is an issue at Edgware Road (sub-surface) terminators.
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Post by domh245 on Nov 13, 2014 18:37:41 GMT
The DLR and London Overground trains require buttons to be pushed to open the doors (except the one the PSA is operating the train from) in all circumstances. This does sometimes confuse people who expect the doors to open automatically like on the Underground, but they soon get the hang of it. Regardless of who opened them, if the doors have started closing then you are too late to use them. The chimes last 3 seconds before the doors start to close, so if you are further away than 2 seconds when they start you are too late. When the doors close at termini for the benefit of the aircon, there is no audible warning. I'm fairly sure the door warbler alarm does go off when they auto-close. They use to close silently, but they updated the trains so that they bleep whenever the doors close, automatically or under the driver's control.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 20:29:55 GMT
When the doors close at termini for the benefit of the aircon, there is no audible warning. I'm fairly sure the door warbler alarm does go off when they auto-close. They use to close silently, but they updated the trains so that they bleep whenever the doors close, automatically or under the driver's control. You are correct (and congrats on the 1000th )
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 13, 2014 22:55:21 GMT
Yes the S8s also have a chime when the doors auto close. I personally feel LU should do more to inform passengers about auto door close. There is huge mix across the LU network including a load of stock that had Passenger door buttons that don't work.
I wouldn't get over excited by this issue in all fairness. As others have said boarding the train when the doors are shutting is at the risk of the individual. It is not a new issue. Even in the 1930s a known problem was passengers jumping onto the running boards of surface stock and attempting to open the hand operated doors. This was designed out with the O/P/Q38 stock and continued with the R stock.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 23:06:52 GMT
The ones that are genuinely cosmetic are apparently called placebo buttons and apparently give people an illusion of control that makes people feel better - presumably about emergencies and things. Certainly, as a regular commuter, I often saw people wait and then reach out and push the button and get lucky, or push the button immediately, and the doors would open because the T/Op had opened them. But I often got the strong feeling that they certainly believed they'd been in control Also, some of the buttons that appear to do nothing can be switched in. The 1992 stock's buttons are, of course, well known to be almost always completely inoperative. However, the selective close feature has been mentioned upthread and - unless it's a different thing - I was on one at Roding Valley in the drizzle once and I think that was used. The T/Op announced that 'cause of the weather he'd close the doors for us, but we could still open them if we wanted to. All doors then closed, with one set of double doors then reopening automatically. I had a little fiddle (couldn't resist) and discovered that, in this mode, both open and close buttons were fully functional.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 13, 2014 23:15:54 GMT
Slightly off topic for this thread, but I was at Harrow-on-the-Hill earlier (about 8:15pm) when a southbound S8 pulled in. The doors didn't open. Much pushing of buttons from in and outside the train, including people reaching round those in front to push the button themselves. The doors still didn't open. After about a minute the t/op moved the train forward about a foot. After another 30 seconds or so (and more pushing of buttons) the doors finally opened. As we got to our seats the t/op appologised for the delay and said the first and last sets of doors would not be opening here. When asked, I speculated that it was probably a CSDE problem but was I right?
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Post by rummer on Nov 14, 2014 8:14:52 GMT
Taken from the Transport For London Railway Byelaw Act (5) No person shall enter or leave a train except by the proper use of a train door. (6) In the case of automatic closing train doors, no person shall enter or leave by the door, force open the door or obstruct the door in any way when it is closing.
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Post by wimblephil on Nov 14, 2014 8:55:15 GMT
What gets me is how a lot of people will look at you like your scum if your stood by the door don't hold it for someone that's running for it as it's closing. And forget trying to explain how it can be worse in the long run! Even just to friends; 'oh it's only a couple of seconds, it can't impact the service'...
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Post by brigham on Nov 14, 2014 11:46:33 GMT
What gets me is how a lot of people will look at you like your scum if your stood by the door don't hold it for someone that's running for it as it's closing. And forget trying to explain how it can be worse in the long run! Even just to friends; 'oh it's only a couple of seconds, it can't impact the service'... Do you ever use a lift? You'll never regulate away politeness, although 'those in charge' have been trying to for forty years at least.
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Post by wimblephil on Nov 14, 2014 12:09:26 GMT
What gets me is how a lot of people will look at you like your scum if your stood by the door don't hold it for someone that's running for it as it's closing. And forget trying to explain how it can be worse in the long run! Even just to friends; 'oh it's only a couple of seconds, it can't impact the service'... Do you ever use a lift? Apples & Oranges
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 14, 2014 14:06:55 GMT
Lifts usually do not have a person controlling them - although I seem to remember a recent RAIB report in which a passenger was caught in closing doors - they assumed that the doors would re-open as they do on a lift when something is stuck in the way (I seem to remember the guard neglected to check that the doorway was clear and the train left with the woman entangled in the door, although somebody pulled the communication cord fortunately).
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Post by Chris M on Nov 14, 2014 14:19:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 14:24:07 GMT
This is off topic a bit,
At statins where lifts are the main form of transport e.g. Covent Garden and Bank do the buttons do anything or are the lifts fully automatic?
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Post by Chris M on Nov 14, 2014 14:39:01 GMT
That depends on the lift, and what mode it is in. Modern lifts that have only two stops tend not to have interior buttons that need to be pressed to make it move, some older ones do (e.g. the recently replaced ones at Edgware Road Bakerloo). MIP lifts that serve more than one level (e.g. Canning Town) have buttons you need to press, although here the lifts are not the primary method of vertical transportation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 14:47:10 GMT
Certainly when I was at Kennington last you had to press the button in the lift to make it move, but I'm not sure if it's always like that or whether it can be fully automated.
At Russell Square they're usually automatic, though manual control can be taken by a MoS from a panel. This is often done during the peaks and is especially common at the moment 'cause of the lift replacement works.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 15:00:41 GMT
I'm having a comments war with someone on YouTube they are saying you do have to press the buttons and I'm saying you don't, so it really depends on how busy the station is/time of day and some other factors.
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