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Post by domh245 on Jan 14, 2014 16:33:28 GMT
Just a thought, but if for whatever reason a T/Op had a late finishing duty, but he lived right next to the depot, and felt he had sufficient rest at the time when he was supposed to book on (or before the 12 hour period is up) would he be told to go and wait until the 12 hours is up, or would he be welcomed back by his manager and given his usual duty
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,348
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Post by Colin on Jan 14, 2014 17:02:31 GMT
Its the same consistent answer from me!
(12 hours book off to book on, no matter where you live)
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Post by dpr on Jan 14, 2014 21:28:03 GMT
First of all, hello everyone! This is my first post on the forum.
Going back to a question asked earlier regarding non safety critical shifts. I have been on a late shift in the past (1500 - 2300) and then had to go in for my annual training at 0900 the following day. I know colleagues who've had the same, even within the last week. When I asked my DSM if this was allowed, the response was that because the training was a non safety critical task, the 12 hour rule did not apply.
Otherwise, have to agree with all other posts who say it's 12 hours book off to book on minimum. If you happen to finish late, you return 12 hours later with no loss of pay. |
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paulsw2
My Train Runs For Those Who Wait Not Wait For Those That Run
Posts: 303
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Post by paulsw2 on Jan 14, 2014 22:59:55 GMT
First of all, hello everyone! This is my first post on the forum.
Going back to a question asked earlier regarding non safety critical shifts. I have been on a late shift in the past (1500 - 2300) and then had to go in for my annual training at 0900 the following day. I know colleagues who've had the same, even within the last week. When I asked my DSM if this was allowed, the response was that because the training was a non safety critical task, the 12 hour rule did not apply.
Otherwise, have to agree with all other posts who say it's 12 hours book off to book on minimum. If you happen to finish late, you return 12 hours later with no loss of pay. 12 hours between shifts you should have been finished at 2100 if you was training next day. If that was me I would have reported for training at 1100 CDP is still safety critical. |
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Post by rheostar on Jan 15, 2014 1:07:36 GMT
First of all, hello everyone! This is my first post on the forum.
Going back to a question asked earlier regarding non safety critical shifts. I have been on a late shift in the past (1500 - 2300) and then had to go in for my annual training at 0900 the following day. I know colleagues who've had the same, even within the last week. When I asked my DSM if this was allowed, the response was that because the training was a non safety critical task, the 12 hour rule did not apply.
Otherwise, have to agree with all other posts who say it's 12 hours book off to book on minimum. If you happen to finish late, you return 12 hours later with no loss of pay. The minimum rest period is 12 hours between duties. It's irrelevant if it's a duty on the station or a non safetly critical training course. Get your DSM to check the Framework Agreement for Station Staffing, Schedule 3, page 7 |
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Post by dpr on Jan 15, 2014 2:12:53 GMT
First of all, hello everyone! This is my first post on the forum.
Going back to a question asked earlier regarding non safety critical shifts. I have been on a late shift in the past (1500 - 2300) and then had to go in for my annual training at 0900 the following day. I know colleagues who've had the same, even within the last week. When I asked my DSM if this was allowed, the response was that because the training was a non safety critical task, the 12 hour rule did not apply.
Otherwise, have to agree with all other posts who say it's 12 hours book off to book on minimum. If you happen to finish late, you return 12 hours later with no loss of pay. The minimum rest period is 12 hours between duties. It's irrelevant if it's a duty on the station or a non safetly critical training course. Get your DSM to check the Framework Agreement for Station Staffing, Schedule 3, page 7 Thanks for the response! Just had a quick read of my copy of the Framework Agreement, and if a DSM happens to wander my way I might ask the question again! Pretty sure they couldn't use the 'emergency situation' clause. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 10:04:52 GMT
The minimum rest period is 12 hours between duties. It's irrelevant if it's a duty on the station or a non safetly critical training course. Get your DSM to check the Framework Agreement for Station Staffing, Schedule 3, page 7 Thanks for the response! Just had a quick read of my copy of the Framework Agreement, and if a DSM happens to wander my way I might ask the question again! Pretty sure they couldn't use the 'emergency situation' clause. I suspect it's more likely that your DSM doesn't know the framework agreement rather than they're trying to pull a fast one, most of the DSMs I worked with were pretty clueless, their training isn't.........comprehensive. And don't get me started on Supervisors or CSAs. |
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Post by dpr on Jan 15, 2014 11:54:57 GMT
Thanks for the response! Just had a quick read of my copy of the Framework Agreement, and if a DSM happens to wander my way I might ask the question again! Pretty sure they couldn't use the 'emergency situation' clause. I suspect it's more likely that your DSM doesn't know the framework agreement rather than they're trying to pull a fast one, most of the DSMs I worked with were pretty clueless, their training isn't.........comprehensive. And don't get me started on Supervisors or CSAs. I would imagine that's probably the case, I would have thought that the AG1s would know the agreements though and wouldn't roster it in such a way in the first place. Maybe there is some confusion above. Thankfully enough it's not a particularly regular happening. |
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Jan 15, 2014 16:40:27 GMT
I suspect it's more likely that your DSM doesn't know the framework agreement rather than they're trying to pull a fast one, most of the DSMs I worked with were pretty clueless, their training isn't.........comprehensive. And don't get me started on Supervisors or CSAs. I would imagine that's probably the case, I would have thought that the AG1s would know the agreements though and wouldn't roster it in such a way in the first place. Maybe there is some confusion above. Thankfully enough it's not a particularly regular happening. Some of the AG1s do not know about agreement's as well they just do as the DSMs tell them to do. Station staff do not have have the power to win in a show down with LUL management. |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jan 15, 2014 23:49:18 GMT
Surely LU, if they're to abide by the interpretation of those of you that are suggesting traveling to & from work must be included, must find out who lives the furthest away at a given location and then work out the roster based upon that person not breaking any rules and not thus routinely at risk of needing to book on late? I think this is the bit where they say 'it's up to you where you live, you need to make sure you can get to your work location'. Cop-out I know! They would probably get worried if you had finished a 12hr shift and were at risk of fatigue driving home (basically as a duty of care thing), but in my experience you don't tend to get rostered for anything later that day when it happens. The case I had was a 2100 book on and due to finish 0600. I ended up getting diverted from Acton Town to Ealing Broadway on a control system failure which tied me up until 0830, then 30 mins to get back, clean up etc. By that time my 25 minute drive home was at least doubled and as I'd worked virtually non-stop all night I had a special taxi home booked and report back at 0900 the following day (which was my regular shift change back from nights to days). |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jan 15, 2014 23:53:16 GMT
Do you use your own transport for such duties? If so do you have the correct insurance, is that checked by the management nowadays? In response to your questions, from a personal perspective: 1. No, that's what pool cars are for! I did in the past when I was insured for business use but as I'm now only covered for SPDC if I have to go directly to site it is done in a company vehicle. 2. Yes in the past, not any more so I no longer use my own vehicle for business purposes. 3. I've never known it to be checked. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 1:41:48 GMT
I would imagine that's probably the case, I would have thought that the AG1s would know the agreements though and wouldn't roster it in such a way in the first place. Maybe there is some confusion above. Thankfully enough it's not a particularly regular happening. Talk to your union rep or talk to someone at the next branch meeting, if they’re doing it to you then it’s likely they’re doing it others and it can be stopped. If you’re not in a union then join one. Station staff do not have have the power to win in a show down with LUL management. Rubbish, I was an H&S Rep when I was on stations, most of the time when an issue came up it was simply that management were ignorant of various agreements and legislation. |
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Post by suncloud on Jan 18, 2014 11:33:35 GMT
Out of interest is there any rules/guidelines on lu regarding minimum length of a 'day off'?
also is there an increased minimum break for when shifting from nights to days. i know that normally it wouldn't be a problem, but is there a point (before the 'twelve hours before') that if your booking off is delayed to, it would delay your booking on?
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jan 18, 2014 23:57:20 GMT
Yes, the standard on safety critical work does give details. I can't remember off hand what they were though. However, there isn't an extended minimum break for a change from nights to days. In reality (from rosters I have worked with) it can't be any less than 23 hours 42 minutes, assuming an 0709 finish from the night shift and an 0651 start for the day.
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Post by suncloud on Jan 19, 2014 15:03:19 GMT
Yes, the standard on safety critical work does give details. I can't remember off hand what they were though. However, there isn't an extended minimum break for a change from nights to days. In reality (from rosters I have worked with) it can't be any less than 23 hours 42 minutes, assuming an 0709 finish from the night shift and an 0651 start for the day. thanks tom, in my current job there is the occasional occurrence of finishing as late as 3 am, and being in again at 8am the day after (29 hours) and it might still be counted as our day off for the week. as for the shift change element, obviously as you say scheduled booking off/on times will be that far apart... wondering if there was a point at which if your booking off was significantly delayed it would affect your next booking on based on having to deal with the shift change... |
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