SSR signalling contract to be re-let (again)

Almost four months on, TfL have entered discussions with Thales over the nitty gritty of the resignalling project (financials, timeline etc).

www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2014/april/lu-invites-thales-to-tender-for-new-signalling-system

I'm not surprised, as it was always obvious Seltrac would offer the simplest and probably cheapest option. Whether Seltrac is the best system is another matter entirely, from an operator's view I regard Seltrac as an awful system in almost every respect, but it does deliver the specified deliverables, albeit badly.

Allegedly there are workstreams in place to look at improving the ride quality. As regards speed, the speed profile on the Northern Line is still very restrictive. Again, my understanding is workstreams are in place to improve this situation.

I'm less than impressed with the platform re-occupation times which the system seems to achieve. Granted, it (normally but NOT always) gets the following train closer to the platform and moving earlier, but unlike the old signalling which then tended to deliver an unobstructed run in once all the home signals had cleared, the TBTC seems to enforce a very restrictive approach. And despite claims that ATO drives the train faster than a human, I can think of few platforms where the system brakes later than faster drivers are capable of. Even some of the faster entries like Tufnell Park and Kentish Town are still slower than possible under manual driving, the open section stations sometimes 20 mph beneath the speed achieved under manual driving. To give an example, at Elephant & Castle s/b I used to have a particular marker where I used to brake from 20 mph. Now the train enters the platform at 18 mph, and brakes earlier than my former marker.

That's all well and good, but it is an incredibly hard system to drive to as the system doesn't give the driver the distances it knows are available. The Westinghouse based systems are therefore better for manual driving and would be more suitable for driving with less compatible stock. I'm not looking forward to driving heritage stock under seltrac to be honest. I'm not sure how chiltern drivers are going to cope with it as it goes against all their driving priciples.

For me, as a mere commuter, it really is a shame. Of course, I would prefer just having an elegant, well-designed ATP system, with all the bells and whistles technology can now provide, but with a human on the handle, but I accept that that's a battle I'm not very likely to win so fair enough.

Leaving that aside, I do hope the workstreams to improve ride quality bear fruit. I remember when I first rode the Jubilee line under ATO - without actually realising that's what I was doing at the time - I thought the ride was terrible and then when I rode it later on it seemed to have got much better. But, speaking subjectively, the last time I travelled on the silver one I really noticed how bad it was and I wish I could say good progress had been made over on the Jubilee bit I'm just not sure it has.

As for the Northern, I have a lot of love for the tube, I like riding around on it, but - and it gives me no pleasure to say it - riding on trains driven under Seltrac's ATO is actually quite uncomfortable, even a little bit unpleasant. And it doesn't need to be I don't think. Central line ATO is far from cutting edge and if it's just a little wet (not a problem in London of course, but on the rare occasion it is a little drizzly...) everything goes wrong, but at least when it is working, you don't really notice it. You can feel it a bit, especially if you sit right up against the cab, particularly on the west between, oooh, Leytonstone and Stratford, but by and large it's not a noticeable, or uncomfortable experience - no more so than when human beings have to adjust the speed because of signals. Over on the Vic, too, the stops are very hard, I've noticed. If I was feeling a little unwell, or I had a minor injury, I'm not sure I'd enjoy the Victoria line, but - by and large - it's not too bad.

I don't mean to be unkind or ungenerous, either. I know there's a lot of work gone into the Northern line upgrade and I take my hat off to everyone who's been involved in getting the system installed, tested and implemented. It's been very impressive, actually, to see deadlines consistently met, sections consistently going live early and how lessons have been learned from the Jubilee line upgrade. The Seltrac system though, unfortunately, from my own viewpoint as a customer is just not a very good product...

News we have been expecting, SSR resignalling contract still to be signed and project extended until 2021/22.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32034660
www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/plans-to-improve-next-four-tube-lines-confirmed

I wasn't aware that TfL had their own ATP/ATC/ATO system, throughout history, they have always used a contractor. Certainly, if TfL decided to run this in house, and make their own system, and fit it for the first time, you can be sure of a very problematic rollout, that would almost certainly be double the length of an equivalent existing system. The problem here was deciding on something under PPP, changing your mind and going for something completely new on this scale (cityflo 650) and then having the contractor admit they can't actually do it and having to retender. If they'd have stayed with Siemens/Invensys, then it wouldn't have cost them huge amounts in payoffs and delays, but would also mean that when it came to be delivered, they would have had several years to prepare it and polish it. That and the fact it wouldn't be seltrac and it's binary driving!

The Hainault-Woodford loop & Victoria Line ATO system was a joint LT/Westinghouse system,Dell the Chief Signal Engineer in the 60s was one of the main developers.

That was the first passenger trial. Previous to that there were trials with empty trains between South Ealing and Acton Town.

The paper is expected to be considered and (hopefully) approved within the next four weeks.

Expected to be completed by the end of 2023, some five years later than originally planned.

Interesting. I am confused as to how the price has more than doubled - is that because TfL want it to be done properly, or because the Bombardier bid was horrendously underpriced? I note that the original westinghouse contract for DTG-R was worth about £1,000,000,000 in today's money (once the immunisation for S stock had been taken care of).

The other interesting thing I picked up on was the apparent change in roll-out order. My understanding was that the Bombardier system would be rolled out from the northern reaches of the metropolitan and then effectively following the routes on which the S stock were introduced (ie Met>H&C>Circle>District). The article seems to imply this being inverted almost, starting with the inner circle before then working out to the suburbs. Is this because Thales want to start with the relatively simple inner circle before then having to do the more difficult task of interworking with the NR signals on the Wimbledon & Richmond branches, as well as northern parts of the met, or for some other reason.

Then again, thinking back on it, the roll-out may still go in the same order, it's just that the circle will be the first to feel the benefits.

The intention to start at hammersmith has been around as you say since last year. This is for two main reasons (1) keeping the early stages close to the control centre simplifies the task of enabling work such as cabling and (2) completing the Circle line and some key feeder routes earlier means the run times can be reduced and timetable service can be increased sooner.

dstock7080 - In a slight change to what you wrote above the north end of the Met is now going to be last, after the west end of the District.

I had a felling that the first SMA would be Hammersmith to Paddington.