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Post by motorman on Jun 28, 2013 21:57:39 GMT
Former London Underground Stock has provided the Service between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin for some 46 years. Twenty three years (1967-1990)saw the use of Standard Stock whilst the last twenty three years 1990 - 2013 has employed 38 Tube Stock. The 38's have now been in service longer and long may that continue. This fact was mentioned in todays Isle of Wight County Press, something I had not particularly thought about.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 28, 2013 22:47:05 GMT
You had me worried with that subject line! I thought the line had been announced for closure or something like that!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2013 1:59:34 GMT
You had me worried with that subject line! I thought the line had been announced for closure or something like that! More to the point, the 38ts can't go on forever. With the salty air exacerbating corrosion issues, what plans are there afoot to bring more "modern" stock over to the island. I think the 83ts might have been a lost opportunity, but what about 72/67ts?
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Post by Chris M on Jun 29, 2013 2:47:47 GMT
I can't remember how official this is, but what I understand is that the lack of cab doors mean that the 67 and 72 stocks aren't suitable for the island. I think they had their eye on some 73 stocks, but with the Picc upgrade delayed indefinitely who knows what will happen.
If it gets to the point that the 38s have less life left in them than there is before LU release any more tube stock, I don't know what will happen. My guess is that at the very least they'll do a cost-benefit analysis on a follow-on order for some new tube stock and on what it would take to reengineer the Ryde tunnel to take full-size trains. Another option might be to go with trams or tram-trains. All of that has got to be pricier by some margin than second-hand tube stock though.
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Post by miff on Jun 29, 2013 9:31:31 GMT
I wonder what the issue is with the cab doors.
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 29, 2013 11:29:00 GMT
Think there are also worries about salt water affecting the equipment under the more recent stocks.
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Post by motorman on Jun 29, 2013 14:16:01 GMT
Whatever eventually replaces the 38 Stock needs to be a two car set otherwise major investment will have to take place in Ryde depot. The 73 stock would be a good choice as the larger door recesses allow some room for luggage and they have cab doors which can be opened. Salt water will affect any train, but in any event in the most extreme conditions the catamaran service is likely to be suspended so terminating short at the Esplanande would then happen. Taxis have on occasions been used to ferry passengers (no pun intended) along the pier.
By the time the 73 stock becomes available is will be of advancing years but of course no match on the 38 Stock. Can they hold out that long? If it were possible to use 3 car sets with the present two train per hour service the total requirement would probably only be for four trains.
There has been talk over the years of converting the line to tram operation with possible extensions into the towns but this would come at a cost. A recent proposal has been made to convert the former Sandown - Newport line into a tramway wich possible Cowes and Carisbrooke extensions. The idea seems to have gone quiet very quickly though.
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Post by grahamhewett on Jun 29, 2013 16:31:23 GMT
When the line was first put up for franchising, BR was allowed to bid for it following a government defeat in the Lords (although we knew we'd never a real hope....) and we put together a bid which did indeed envisage conversion to light rail initially without street running in Ryde. Interestingly, one bidder (who didn't, alas, prequalify) was the IoW Steam railway in conjunction with Southern Vectis which would have opened up some attractive options for steam operation. Going back to Newport would have been nice but there is a road scheme and large retail development in the way now and even if Ryde-Sandown was converted to light rail, the island roads would hardly permit on-street running in the countryside to access Newport and no one would want to electrify the steam railway.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2013 17:14:36 GMT
Two or three car sets? They ran with seven in the summer back in the early 1970's. See image here.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 29, 2013 21:35:14 GMT
It may be cheaper to cut doors into the 1967/72 stock!
I believe 7 cars were ok as they were 'car' stock and hence could be split easier. I'd like to see 1972 stock used on the line.
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Post by rheostar on Jun 30, 2013 8:29:38 GMT
With correct maintenance the 73 stock will last for some time yet. Mind you, I suppose it has to as their replacements won't arrive on the Piccadilly line until the mid 20's.
I know very little of the Island Line, does it have many tight bends as the cars of the 73 stock are a lot longer than a 38?
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Post by Chris M on Jun 30, 2013 9:24:49 GMT
I'm no expert on the line either, but I don't recall any sharp bends and there aren't any obvious ones looking at a map.
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Post by metman on Jun 30, 2013 9:38:52 GMT
I'd prefer 72 stock as it is less complex having a Westinghouse brake like the current ones and perhaps will be easier to maintain. Having said that, maybe the westcode brake will be better long term??
I think the 72 stock could be formed into 2 cars easier than the 73 stock.
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Post by br7mt on Jun 30, 2013 10:22:06 GMT
There isn't any room on 72TS DM car underframes for compressors and MAs plus all the associated equipment. Unless a major re-design is done to remove the rheostatic brake resistor grids and leave a smaller set to dissipate residual energy from operating the traction equipment. All depends on how much needs to be left in place.
The 73TS will still be in pretty good shape come 2025, some known areas of structural problems but nothing that can't be fixed before it becomes a problem. The underframe equipment cases are also pretty well sealed after the fleet refurbishment.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 17:22:12 GMT
You had me worried with that subject line! I thought the line had been announced for closure or something like that! As did I, either that or the withdrawal of the 38TS Class 483s before I get a chance to go to the IoW and ride one *crosses fingers* two more years... two more! Moving on, why not take the 1972 MK1 out of Aldwych and send it there, and maybe give a 1967TS to the Aldwych run, that way the trains featured in movies at Aldwych look more like authentic LU trains instead of an unpainted mess!
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Post by christopher125 on Jul 6, 2013 19:27:59 GMT
I'm no expert on the line either, but I don't recall any sharp bends and there aren't any obvious ones looking at a map. Curvature and it's impact on body length is a major issue and always has been - Ryde Tunnel is the culprit, a tight s-bend that along with the platform at Ryde Esplanade has always prevented modern mainland designs being used. Reducing it to single track was considered in an effort to ease the curvature and so allow the 58ft (17.68m) ex-Merseyside 503's to replace the Standard stock, but they persevered and were eventually replaced by the 1938 stock. Back in 2010 SWT were quoted in a webchat as saying "We will replace the rolling stock on the Island Line in the next five to seven years. The replacement stock will come from London Underground. We are planing to use Piccadilly line rolling stock" - how much work has actually been undertaken into the practicality and costs involved is unknown however. Chris
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