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Post by ruislip on May 1, 2013 13:56:10 GMT
Instead of using the traditional NR symbol at stations where there is interchange with mail line railways, why not put the name of the TOC(s)? For example at Harrow on the Hill and Amersham on the Met, have it labelled for Chiltern Railways?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 14:20:15 GMT
Good suggest
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 1, 2013 14:48:18 GMT
The box under King's Cross St. Pancras would be rather big:
Circle
Hammersmith & City
Metropolitan
Northern
Piccadilly
Victoria
East Coast
East Midlands Trains
EuroStar
First Capital Connect
South Eastern High Speed
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Post by Chris M on May 1, 2013 14:58:30 GMT
The box under King's Cross St. Pancras would be rather big: Circle Hammersmith & City Metropolitan Northern Piccadilly Victoria East Coast East Midlands Trains EuroStar First Capital Connect South Eastern High Speed Grand Central |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 15:30:10 GMT
The box under King's Cross St. Pancras would be rather big: Circle Hammersmith & City Metropolitan Northern Piccadilly Victoria East Coast East Midlands Trains EuroStar First Capital Connect South Eastern High Speed Grand Central Hull Trains. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 17:21:13 GMT
Great until the franchise name changes; remember Thameslink which many still think it is, when in fact it is First Capital Connect so confusion without looking a map already!
XF
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Post by domh245 on May 1, 2013 17:58:17 GMT
Yeah, to be honest, I think it would get quite crowded on the map. Although maybe a suggestion would be for "EVO" would be to have an LCD screen in place of car maps, to allow for:
A) Better interoperability
B) Improved CIS
C) Easier Identification for tourists
You board a H&C train at Euston Square, you see that all of the line maps are only displaying the route for this train (which happens to be a Moorgate terminator). You see this as there are only 4 stops on the map
-0------0---------0----------|
ESQ KXP FAR MOR
As you leave the station you receive the usual "The next station is King's cross St Pancrass. Change for the Victoria, Piccadilly, and Northern lines, Eurostar, and National Rail services" accompanied by the relevant line colours, and as "National Rail" is announced, then TOC pictures appear together
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Post by crusty54 on May 1, 2013 18:56:36 GMT
The whole point is that we have a National Rail system.
The continued use of the symbol on the line diagram was agreed by Chris Green in Network South East days. He originally wanted to highlight NSE but accepted it was not possible.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 1, 2013 21:26:24 GMT
I rather like the devices they have on recent rolling stock in New York: LCD/LED combined display, showing next confirmed 10 stops/interchanges, beyond that are selected stops to final destination.   |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 21:42:16 GMT
Yeah, to be honest, I think it would get quite crowded on the map. Although maybe a suggestion would be for "EVO" would be to have an LCD screen in place of car maps, to allow for: A) Better interoperability B) Improved CIS C) Easier Identification for tourists You board a H&C train at Euston Square, you see that all of the line maps are only displaying the route for this train (which happens to be a Moorgate terminator). You see this as there are only 4 stops on the map -0------0---------0----------| ESQ KXP FAR MOR As you leave the station you receive the usual "The next station is King's cross St Pancrass. Change for the Victoria, Piccadilly, and Northern lines, Eurostar, and National Rail services" accompanied by the relevant line colours, and as "National Rail" is announced, then TOC pictures appear together And barbican has been closed lol. |
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Post by Tomcakes on May 1, 2013 22:20:15 GMT
Very confusing - *everybody* knows that the BR double arrows signify the mainline railways.
Using what are essentially brand names would just confuse matters, especially what with them changing every few years. Most people don't know, nor care, who the owner of their train is. I expect that if you asked a random selection of the general public who operated the railways, the most common answer would be "British Rail" - 15 years after it ceased to operate trains!
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Post by rail2210 on May 2, 2013 9:02:18 GMT
Dstock7080I quite like that system. It could have been used on the S7 Stock. scaped.net/f/r160.php That lets you make your own display , I made one for the Met line.
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Post by metrailway on May 2, 2013 14:42:44 GMT
Tomcakes is right - everyone knows what the double arrows mean. Road signs in Britain generally only state "Station" (or the station name) with the double arrows. There is no confusion with other types of stations as everyone recognises what the logo mean.  The logo is used a lot on the national network - on tickets, on maps, on signs, online etc. It is a unified network. Passengers are still able to buy tickets to any National Rail station regardless of the operators. So I see little benefit in putting operator brand names* on LUL signs/maps, especially since they tend to change every few years. *They really should get rid of brand names, such as Virgin Trains, and mandate generic names such as West Coast, which survive franchise handovers.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 2, 2013 15:43:32 GMT
I quite like that system. It could have been used on the S7 Stock. scaped.net/f/r160.php That lets you make your own display , I made one for the Met line. Yes, here's my attempt!  |
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Post by Chris M on May 2, 2013 16:33:34 GMT
Not bad. If a modern system could do full colour then the line names should be in the line colour - seeing "Piccadilly" in green looks decidedly odd! It couldalso o with the NR symbol.
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l1group
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Post by l1group on May 2, 2013 18:27:59 GMT
A limitation with that too is that with big interchanges, such as King's Cross St Pancras - you'd need a LOT of space to get that in. Tried that for the Piccadilly line, and it did go off the display!
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 19:17:52 GMT
Surely printed maps will soon be replaced by an LCD or LED equivalent version which can be updated as and when and also allow a quick transfer of stock between lines should the need arise?
XF
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Post by crusty54 on May 2, 2013 19:27:56 GMT
There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple.
Screens would consume electricity and generate heat. They would also need regular cleaning.
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Post by Chris M on May 2, 2013 20:18:27 GMT
If they can get colour e-ink screens to a suitable brightness then I think that will be the technology that finally sees the end of printed line diagrams. Realistically that's going to be the next but one generation of trains at the earliest.
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l1group
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Post by l1group on May 2, 2013 20:21:55 GMT
Also, LCD screens (I think) can actually "burn" the display onto the glass - as seen in Heathrow Central HEX Station: www.flickr.com/photos/78790262@N07/8479461127/Note you can see xx min on the screen, but not on the display - so it is "burnt" - that's due to it showing the same thing for a long time... |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 8:20:06 GMT
There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple. Screens would consume electricity and generate heat. They would also need regular cleaning. These screens have very low power consumption and we are no longer turning forests into tube maps! XF |
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Post by crusty54 on May 3, 2013 18:21:53 GMT
There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple. Screens would consume electricity and generate heat. They would also need regular cleaning. These screens have very low power consumption and we are no longer turning forests into tube maps! XF I think I know which consumes less energy. The laminated paper diagrams have a long life. Screens would have to be maintained and could well be prone to vandalism.Space on Tube stock is also very limited and increased weight would result. |
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Post by domh245 on May 3, 2013 18:58:52 GMT
What about OLEDs? They are thinner and lighter, and work better in dark light situations (eg displaying detrainment information in the event of an emergency), but they are more expensive at the moment (although the price will no doubt come down), and use more energy (again, likely to be solved before too long!)
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 20:18:11 GMT
I quite like that system. It could have been used on the S7 Stock. scaped.net/f/r160.php That lets you make your own display , I made one for the Met line. Yes, here's my attempt! Here is mine:     Abbreviations used: Bakerloo - Central - Circle - District - Hammersmith & City - Jubilee - Metropolitian - Northern - Piccadilly - Victoria - Waterloo & City Docklands Light Railway - Overground - National Rail |
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Post by rail2210 on May 4, 2013 20:30:00 GMT
 L = Circle Line NR = National Rail |
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Post by Tomcakes on May 4, 2013 21:26:27 GMT
LCD screens do display screen burn, indeed some (good quality) ones after only 2 years. In order to be bright enough to be easily readable in a tube carriage they would use a lot of power and give off a lot of heat. Not to mention the expense.
No, I don't think we'll see the end of maps just yet. Don't try to fix what isn't broke. If a map gets damaged then, presumably, the depot staff notice and replace it from a spare kept in the cupboard. If the maps need replaced, again I presume that somebody is rostered to spend a shift replacing hundreds of them (poor sod).
I do wonder at what point some TfL manager will notice that the maps are becoming unreadable what with the variously different coloured wheelchairs all over, the bits of red stating that trains stop only between 0654 and 0712 on the third Wednesday in each month, the reminders to not travel at weekends because the whole network is shut, the...
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 7:48:12 GMT
LCD screens do display screen burn, indeed some (good quality) ones after only 2 years. In order to be bright enough to be easily readable in a tube carriage they would use a lot of power and give off a lot of heat. Not to mention the expense. No, I don't think we'll see the end of maps just yet. Don't try to fix what isn't broke. If a map gets damaged then, presumably, the depot staff notice and replace it from a spare kept in the cupboard. If the maps need replaced, again I presume that somebody is rostered to spend a shift replacing hundreds of them (poor sod). I do wonder at what point some TfL manager will notice that the maps are becoming unreadable what with the variously different coloured wheelchairs all over, the bits of red stating that trains stop only between 0654 and 0712 on the third Wednesday in each month, the reminders to not travel at weekends because the whole network is shut, the... Here I am typing this out on my energy efficient and very clear iPad thinking this is a no brainier the paper map is dead long live the paper map. Interesting subway systems such as Boston Mass have rows of powered screeins in the tunnel between stations that sync with the train speed and display adverts through the train windows as it passes. So if it is thiis is good for adverts why you could have in car maps which display adverts/ live information on the service etc as well . Paper maps are very flat and inflexible where's as screens offer all sort of possabitlits. How about no more pater based Metro papers instead the content is displayed on the space next to the maps.? That would save a fortune in waste disposal alone! XF |
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Post by bicbasher on May 5, 2013 17:39:56 GMT
How about adding the double arrow to London Overground stations on line diagrams, or is that with the orange too confusing for your average passenger?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 19:08:41 GMT
Probably the most comprehensive PIS fitted to a train in the world. Full colour LCD screens above every doorway showing all the info you could ever want from: How long it takes to reach any station on the route from where you are to where the lifts,escalators and stairs are at every platform. It's fully translated over to English as well as Japanese and swaps between the two so it's all fairly self explanatory!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 20:38:11 GMT
Probably the most comprehensive PIS fitted to a train in the world. Full colour LCD screens above every doorway showing all the info you could ever want from: How long it takes to reach any station on the route from where you are to where the lifts,escalators and stairs are at every platform. It's fully translated over to English as well as Japanese and swaps between the two so it's all fairly self explanatory! Case proven me thinks ! XF |
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