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Post by br7mt on Dec 29, 2013 12:49:36 GMT
"SelTrac" is the brand name of the Thales (formerly Alcatel) signalling system. In this instance it is the SelTrac S40 product used on Jubilee and Northern - it is known as Transmission Based Train Control (TBTC) and uses an inductive loop to transmit information between train and wayside. Positional information is derived from where the loop crosses over every 25 metres, backed up by data from tachometers and accelerometers. Back up location and entry onto the system is done using axle counter blocks.
The Victoria line uses the Siemens (formely Invensys and back even further Westinghouse) Distance To Go Radio (DTG-R). This uses radio based comms between train and wayside and I believe the positional information is done using a route map in the on board controller software. The trains are fitted with tachometers but I'm not sure if there are doppler radars fitted.
Basically they are different ways of achieveing the same thing.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 17:01:43 GMT
Thanks  |
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 2, 2014 14:25:21 GMT
The worst part is it's DRIVING away jobs(Pun intended).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 8:52:38 GMT
The worst part is it's DRIVING away jobs(Pun intended). OK I'll bite. How exactly is the introduction of ATO driving away jobs? If anything the opposite is true - both Jubilee and Victoria had an increase in service post ATO introduction with more train operators needed. The Northern line will be the same. |
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 3, 2014 10:48:02 GMT
What I meant was there will be a lesser need for drivers.
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Post by abe on Jan 4, 2014 9:44:47 GMT
You still haven't explained why you believe this to be the case, particularly in light of tridentalx's reply...
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 4, 2014 9:57:47 GMT
You still haven't explained why you believe this to be the case, particularly in light of tridentalx's reply... What I mean is ATO? DRIVERLESS trains? You only need depot staff to trigger it! |
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 4, 2014 9:58:58 GMT
More trains mean more operators.
There will still be someone on every train if the cabs go.
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Post by domh245 on Jan 4, 2014 10:03:55 GMT
Until the 95TS are withdrawn, there will still be someone on the front. Even when they are gone, and we potentially face "driverless" trains, there will still be staff onboard - how else would you fix a train fault inbetween stations?
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 4, 2014 11:05:18 GMT
Until the 95TS are withdrawn, there will still be someone on the front. Even when they are gone, and we potentially face "driverless" trains, there will still be staff onboard - how else would you fix a train fault in between stations? Even the Docklands Light Tonka has a "Train Captain"  |
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 4, 2014 16:06:37 GMT
Until the 95TS are withdrawn, there will still be someone on the front. Even when they are gone, and we potentially face "driverless" trains, there will still be staff onboard - how else would you fix a train fault inbetween stations? Kick it up it's butt until it moves? |
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 5, 2014 9:26:51 GMT
Kick it up it's butt until it moves? And just who is going to do the kicking ? I don't know. Certainly not Tube staff though, as it is no longer officially part of the tube network. The line has been taken over by Alstom. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 10:11:05 GMT
And just who is going to do the kicking ? I don't know. Certainly not Tube staff though, as it is no longer officially part of the tube network. The line has been taken over by Alstom. I'm getting fed up reading anti-ATO/driverless trains drivel on this forum again. It's safe, proven technology and will be way of the future. |
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 5, 2014 10:55:20 GMT
Well said Stephen - far too many Luddites on this forum. Humans driving trains on a high frequency metro should be seen as an anachronism in 2014, not a bonus.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 5, 2014 12:04:57 GMT
[/quote]I don't know. Certainly not Tube staff though, as it is no longer officially part of the tube network. The line has been taken over by Alstom.[/quote]
Alstom has been responsible for Northern Line trains for many years and doing a very good job of it too.
LUL has taken over the contract from Tube Lines so no change really.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 13:55:56 GMT
I don't know. Certainly not Tube staff though, as it is no longer officially part of the tube network. The line has been taken over by Alstom. It would seem from your post count that you are a recently joined member so I'd guess people are cutting you some slack. However, I'd recommend that you read and learn some more about the underground before posting nonsense such as this. The Northern line, like all the underground is still in public ownership and is still part of the underground network. All of the operational staff are London Underground employees. The only bit that Alstom manage is the fleet maintenance as they used to on the Jubilee as well before it was brought back in house. |
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Post by domh245 on Jan 5, 2014 15:18:39 GMT
As others have said, alstom do the fleet maintenance for the 95 stock at golders green and Morden depots. They are doing a refurbishment of the trains (to a LU spec) at Morden as well. And unless I'm missing something the ATO system is seltrac S40, now owned by Thales. The northern line is being upgraded, not taken over by alstom.
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 7:51:43 GMT
It is now ran by Alstom? But it will be shown on tube maps.
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 7:53:50 GMT
Guys. It's all over London Underground websites about the big takeover.
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Post by domh245 on Jan 6, 2014 8:09:59 GMT
I'm honestly not sure where you a finding this information. The official London Underground website (www.tfl.gov.uk) has nothing about alstom more recent than 2005 having done a quick search. If this information is from any other website, even if it were our own, it should be treated as rumour and speculation. I think an easy way to clarify this would be with a link.
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Dom K
Global Moderator
The future is bright
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Post by Dom K on Jan 6, 2014 8:35:51 GMT
Cstock5000 this all sounds like made up nonsense of an over-active imagination! Without evidence, and I cannot imagine there would be, it's just pointless dribble and has no point in this forum topic and belongs in RIPAS at the very least
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 8:40:37 GMT
Well, it's all over the "Tube" web!
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 8:41:07 GMT
And how is this all over imagination? The line is NOT ran by TFL. Got that?
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Post by domh245 on Jan 6, 2014 8:46:35 GMT
Until we get some evidence of this, I'm going to not believe this. I'm not sure what "Tube" web you are talking about, The official tube website has nothing on it about this. If alstom had been given the go ahead to run the line, surely this news would be on their website. It isn't. Can we have a link, otherwise I might start thing that we have a case of trolling on our hands.
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 8:58:15 GMT
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Dom K
Global Moderator
The future is bright
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Post by Dom K on Jan 6, 2014 9:43:45 GMT
A link to a site that requires paid registration? Coincidence? |
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Post by cstock5000 on Jan 6, 2014 9:45:25 GMT
Look CLOSELY
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 6, 2014 11:08:56 GMT
That article is seven years old, and refers to changes in the performance criteria for the maintenance contract - nothing more (except a mention of the new Picadilly Line trains that are due to enter service this year (!))
Note that TubeLines became a subsidiary of TfL in 2010
Googling the text of the article's title found an open-access version which says
"22 January 2007
The private consortium that maintains the track and trains on London Underground's Northern Line is close to finalising contract changes that should transform the reliability of the troubled line's trains. In a Financial Times interview, Terry Morgan, chief executive of Tubelines, said he had reached an agreement in principle with Alstom, the engineering company that built and maintains the trains. The deal should give Alstom better incentives to keep the trains running reliably. Tubelines believed the contract, worth £429m over its 20-year life, gave Alstom too little incentive to make the trains more reliable. Alstom has successfully maintained similar trains on the Jubilee Line to a much higher standard under a different contract.
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[Mr Morgan said] "What we have agreed in principle with Alstom is a change in the terms of our working relationships," he said. "We have agreed a change to a different set of performance metrics, including incentives aligned with the obligations we are trying to meet to London Underground."
Alstom is currently judged according to the average distance its trains travel without breaking down. Under the renegotiated contract, Tubelines will also be more involved with deciding how the trains are maintained and will be able to step in to make changes if the trains' performance is unsatisfactory.
Tubelines last week asked suppliers to register interest in supplying new trains to replace the Piccadilly Line fleet by 2014.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 12:13:12 GMT
Cstock5000 - The link you posted is to a very old article but one which still doesn't suggest Alstom have taken over the Northern line. I refer you to my earlier post - Alstom do maintenance on the Northern line fleet. London Underground run the trains and operates the stations. Please don't waste our time by continuing to post incorrect information in this and the 95 stock refurb thread. |
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Jan 6, 2014 13:24:32 GMT
Moderator Comment
cstock5000
As other members have already pointed out, the information you are providing is, at best, out of date. Please desist from continually contradicting what wiser heads have already put. There are many long-standing members who are well respected within LU and the industry as a whole and are far more aware of the current situation as regards the Northern Line, than yourself.
Please note that this thread is concerning TBTC and any further discussion should be to this subject.
Your petulant posting is not really acceptable here.
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