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Post by programmes1 on Dec 19, 2012 12:27:02 GMT
Can anyone tell me why the diagram was changed from a glass to a mosiac tiles, is this part of a programme to do other IMRs?
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Harsig
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Post by Harsig on Dec 19, 2012 12:53:44 GMT
Can anyone tell me why the diagram was changed from a glass to a mosiac tiles, is this part of a programme to do other IMRs? Has it been changed, or did it always have a mosaic diagram. Certainly a brief survey of my IMR photos suggests that most (although not all) IMRs that were new after about 1987, today have mosaic diagrams. Uxbridge IMR dates from 1987. |
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Post by programmes1 on Dec 19, 2012 13:29:43 GMT
Can anyone tell me why the diagram was changed from a glass to a mosiac tiles, is this part of a programme to do other IMRs? Has it been changed, or did it always have a mosaic diagram. Certainly a brief survey of my IMR photos suggests that most (although not all) IMRs that were new after about 1987, today have mosaic diagrams. Uxbridge IMR dates from 1987. I think it must have as I was shown a photo which shows glass with LEDs like Rayners Lane, the same person who has the 95 stock photo. |
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 19, 2012 13:34:36 GMT
I worked on that project although I only entered the new IMR once, when it was being installed. I'd bet it was a mosaic like the other sites installed around the same time, but we can't mention those.
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Post by programmes1 on Dec 19, 2012 15:02:43 GMT
I worked on that project although I only entered the new IMR once, when it was being installed. I'd bet it was a mosaic like the other sites installed around the same time, but we can't mention those. That's why I can not post photos, but back on subject the IMR at AT has the original diagrams like a lot of them. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 15:24:49 GMT
Only one on the District is at West Ham but its not a IMR its a relay room all the others have original diagrams still in place.
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Post by programmes1 on Dec 19, 2012 17:14:17 GMT
Only one on the District is at West Ham but its not a IMR its a relay room all the others have original diagrams still in place. Thanks for that at least we know what's happening on the District if anyone knows of any other changes would be grateful. |
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 19, 2012 21:58:05 GMT
I worked on that project although I only entered the new IMR once, when it was being installed. I'd bet it was a mosaic like the other sites installed around the same time, but we can't mention those. That's why I can not post photos, but back on subject the IMR at AT has the original diagrams like a lot of them. AT is a site I know well as I used to maintain both IMRs there and of course there were/are two diagrams in east. EAC had/has an original diagram and EBY has/had two diagrams like AT east. To my knowledge mosaic diagrams have been around since around 1980 though they were AFAIK not used in IMRs and RRs then but elsewhere on the system. |
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 19, 2012 22:12:14 GMT
Only one on the District is at West Ham but its not a IMR its a relay room all the others have original diagrams still in place. Thanks for that at least we know what's happening on the District if anyone knows of any other changes would be grateful. Think 'toy railway' as the Central LCs used to call it when they looked after it late at night, I can't now recall how many of the IMRs have mosaics having not been in one AFAICR since I installed & commissioned some of the kit in them and the then new CR/ SRR complex about 20 years ago. My thinking would be all but I can only definitely say one plus the one in the CR. I guess the Picc might have at least one now although with newer technology it may be more 'metal mickey' replacement (VDU or DM) variety than the traditional types including mosaic |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 25, 2012 22:57:55 GMT
Are you sure Uxbridge ever had a glass sandwich diagram in the IMR? All the times I've tested there it was a more modern diagram, though I can't for the life of me remember if it was engraved sheet steel or a mosaic.
Generally the sites commissioned until about 1986 used 'Glass Sandwiches' with LEDs; e.g. Rayners Lane and High Street Kensington, though the 1987 sites and subsequent ones such as Baker Street, Uxbridge et al used either mosaic or sheet steel.
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 26, 2012 2:45:01 GMT
Are you sure Uxbridge ever had a glass sandwich diagram in the IMR? All the times I've tested there it was a more modern diagram, though I can't for the life of me remember if it was engraved sheet steel or a mosaic. Generally the sites commissioned until about 1986 used 'Glass Sandwiches' with LEDs; e.g. Rayners Lane and High Street Kensington, though the 1987 sites and subsequent ones such as Baker Street, Uxbridge et al used either mosaic or sheet steel. I've always thought the glass diagrams were best from an aesthetically pleasing viewpoint and of course they continued to be installed such as at Earls Court control room circa 2004 which I recall as I was maintenance on site liaison for that project and assisted the project team in tracing the old panels and fitting the new ones. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2012 7:45:21 GMT
Glass sandwiches can look a lot better, but they take a long time to get right and are a pain to modify as you have to split the sandwich and hope it all goes back together.
The ones at Earl's Court, from what I can remember, aren't true glass sandwiches but are more sheet perspex with stickers on the rear side of the panel. (I've got one panel from there).
How come they needed to be traced out? Did the Design Office not have the original masters for new copies to be made from?
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 27, 2012 14:50:43 GMT
Glass sandwiches can look a lot better, but they take a long time to get right and are a pain to modify as you have to split the sandwich and hope it all goes back together. The ones at Earl's Court, from what I can remember, aren't true glass sandwiches but are more sheet perspex with stickers on the rear side of the panel. (I've got one panel from there). How come they needed to be traced out? Did the Design Office not have the original masters for new copies to be made from? I don't know the why's and wherefore's and I admit that I was surprised when I was asked to assist the project team in removing the original panels so that they could be traced on site. As I recall it took several shifts to trace out the panels and the new ones were not all perfect. A half panel was created to show how it compared to what existed and for the signal operators to comment upon. Of the new panels at least one was a complete reject (and had to be remade) as it didn't line up enough with the signal indications, a couple of the others were tricky to fit due to the lack of tolerance adjustment of junction signal indicators. Sighting of the route lamps from the signal operator desks was difficult to achieve. I did think the panels were glass although I didn't think they were a sandwich, to me it was as if a self adhesive coloured transparent film had been made and applied to the back. The appearance was a much higher quality than I would attribute to a 'sticker' but I assume that, that is what you mean. I would've suggested that it was perhaps some kind of tampo printing direct onto the glass and then sealed with a transparent film, not knowing anything at all about the production process. I had wondered whether the design office had been split into Tube Lines and Metronet as part of the InfraCo creation but I really don't know. I know that Tube Lines must've had a design section because I was asked what would be required to relocate Northfields east end shunter signals and comms into the newly built east end cabin and produced a method statement and circuit designs for the project which was intended to be done by the maintenance staff (at that time we did a lot more than maintenance routines, personally I also did comms installations, removal of redundant equipment and cabling, rewiring etc and electrical work as we were all expected to be more than just signal maintenance linemen) but the DO felt that was treading upon its toes and vetoed it. In the event neither of the new shunters cabins were used by shunters and the one at the west end became home to the Boston Manor gate security but the last I heard was that it was to be demolished to make way for a westward extension of the Northfields sheds. |
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Post by bruce on Dec 27, 2012 15:38:54 GMT
The diagram panels at Cobourg Street for the Northern & the Victoria Lines had to be removed and traced on site. Luckily none of the original panels shattered on removal or replacement back into the frames.
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