Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Jan 30, 2013 16:28:53 GMT
What about at Harrow, could a similar arguement be made for there?
|
|
|
Post by metrider on Jan 30, 2013 18:41:51 GMT
Not all fast line trains are run to make up time, I'm aware of that, the point I was making was if a service is being made an additional fast train to recover late-running, I see no point in it calling at Wembley which will simply reduce the number of minutes that can be recovered. And I never disagreed.. My example pointed out a real life case where a train that was clearly made fast to make up time, sensibly ran straight through Wembley park on the northbound fast (where a scheduled service would have stopped). In effect on that particular occasion they were doing what you suggested they should be doing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2013 14:50:27 GMT
This is a point I made earlier. 'Fast' trains into London have tended to slow down, stop, slow down, stop, let that all stations that left at the same time from Harrow get ahead of them at Wembley. Maybe its LuL's way of saying we don't want to do this anymore? Yet empty stock workings rush up and down the fast lines like they are trying to break the land speed record. Whilst I agree that scheduled fast trains in the peak do stop/start a lot, you generally don't usually get so slow that you end up behind a slow at Wembley. I'm usually on the slow trains and never usually arrive at Wembley before a fast train passes. Most likely at wembley a fast can catch up with the previous slow train, I know fasts don't have enough time to overtake 2 slows, but they almost always manage to overtake 1 slow. Cheers, TSM
|
|
Fahad
In memoriam
Posts: 459
|
Post by Fahad on Feb 1, 2013 17:33:47 GMT
What about at Harrow, could a similar arguement be made for there? A train not stopping at Harrow-on-the-Hill might as well be out of service, it's the busiest station beyond Wembley Park
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2013 17:45:29 GMT
As a point of historical interest, up to the early seventies fast Amersham and Chesham trains ran non stop Finchley Road to Moor Park, fast Watford trains non stop Finchley Road to North Harrow and fast Uxbridge non stop Finchley Road to Rayners Lane so Harrow was bypassed by quite a few trains in the rush hour. Fast Uxbridge trains used to run through platform 1 at Harrow and use a now removed line connecting the fast Moor Park line to the Uxbridge westbound alongside the fly-under. The retaining wall for this line was partly demolished about 20 years ago but the remains on the connecting line can be seen as you approach West Harrow from Harrow.
|
|
|
Post by motorman on Feb 1, 2013 20:33:09 GMT
If I recall in earlier years fast Uxbridge trains ran non stop Finchley Road - Eastcote. Can anyone recall when this was. I suspect it before the introduction of the A Stock
|
|
|
Post by Harsig on Feb 2, 2013 9:37:27 GMT
As a point of historical interest, up to the early seventies fast Amersham and Chesham trains ran non stop Finchley Road to Moor Park, fast Watford trains non stop Finchley Road to North Harrow and fast Uxbridge non stop Finchley Road to Rayners Lane so Harrow was bypassed by quite a few trains in the rush hour. Fast Uxbridge trains used to run through platform 1 at Harrow and use a now removed line connecting the fast Moor Park line to the Uxbridge westbound alongside the fly-under. The retaining wall for this line was partly demolished about 20 years ago but the remains on the connecting line can be seen as you approach West Harrow from Harrow. The retaining wall was surely demolished forty plus years ago. The old high level route was taken out of use in 1967, the reason given at the time being that this retaining wall was unstable. Incidentally I remember that the through Chesham trains in the evening peak ran through Harrow without stopping into the early 1990s.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 11:02:42 GMT
No, it was demolished some time after the link was removed because the wall was bulging due to pressure from the soil behind it. I know this because the occupants of a factory/warehouse behind it was a client of mine and once the wall was demolished cracks appeared in their walls and floor due to earth movement. The building has recently been demolished and flats built.
It was Finchley Road to Rayners Lane in my 1955 timetable so it must have been sometime before that. I recall something mention of Eatcote too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 17:57:10 GMT
I seem to recall a fast Chesham/Amersham not stopping at Harrow in the early 1990s. Only think this lasted a year though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 7:57:37 GMT
Does anyone know when the points at Harrow North junction are scheduled to be replaced? And with what...?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 10:18:01 GMT
Timetables from: 11/5/87 - Amersham and Chesham trains non-stop Harrow in peak direction. 14/5/90 - All peak Amersham/Chesham trains to stop at Harrow in the peaks, except for the two NB Chesham trains in PM peak. 28/10/91 - Two NB Chesham trains now stop at Harrow PM peak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 9:30:03 GMT
Does anyone know when the points at Harrow North junction are scheduled to be replaced? And with what...? Probably an equivalent of Hadrians Wall as the Met don't seem to want to have anything to do with 'fast' lines any more!
|
|
|
Post by geriatrix on Mar 15, 2013 19:52:35 GMT
I see that Cheryl Gillan, MP for Chesham & Amersham made a cab trip from Chesham to Baker Street last week, according to the south bucks Star local freesheet. I wonder if it was a dreary "all stations" trip, or a "fast". She did say "I was thoroughly impressed by what I saw, and thanked the staff for all their efforts in keeping the trains running and providing a fantastic service for my constituents. Funny, that. I hadn't realised she was the MP for Pinner as well. :-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 6:53:02 GMT
LU now saying they have no intention of reintroducing off peak fast services even after upgrade is So, after millions of pounds and years of disruption, it looks like journey times from north of Ricky will be no better than before the upgrade started!
For Chesham, which will continue to have 2 tph, there will be no reduction in waiting time; just a more tedious service.
TfL will manage Crossrail and want responsibility for other lines which run beyond the GLA...wonder if the residents of Maidenhead are aware of what's going on with the priorities on the Met?
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Apr 10, 2013 9:26:42 GMT
LU now saying they have no intention of reintroducing off peak fast services even after upgrade is Do you have a source for this, Metliner?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 12:12:06 GMT
LU now saying they have no intention of reintroducing off peak fast services even after upgrade is Do you have a source for this, Metliner? Yes, a letter from Cheryl Gillan MP after she asked LU directly.
|
|
Dstock7080
Administrator
Posts: 5,806
Member is Online
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 10, 2013 15:51:44 GMT
So, after millions of pounds and years of disruption, it looks like journey times from north of Ricky will be no better than before the upgrade started! A slight improvement will be made in May, with the introduction of 60mph running north of Wembley: NB: Harrow-Moor Park FL -1min Ricky-ChorleyWood -½min SB: Chesham-Chalfont -½min Amersham-Chalfont -½min Chalfont-ChorleyWood -½min Moor Pk-Harrow FL -½min Harrow-Wembley FL -½
|
|
|
Post by cooperman on Apr 15, 2013 20:49:06 GMT
LU now saying they have no intention of reintroducing off peak fast services even after upgrade is So, after millions of pounds and years of disruption, it looks like journey times from north of Ricky will be no better than before the upgrade started! For Chesham, which will continue to have 2 tph, there will be no reduction in waiting time; just a more tedious service. TfL will manage Crossrail and want responsibility for other lines which run beyond the GLA...wonder if the residents of Maidenhead are aware of what's going on with the priorities on the Met? Indeed metliner, I had one of those Free Chesham Mags through the door recently . As I'm a Media Hack my self, reading between the lines. It basically says " You should be Lucky we still run a service up to you neck of the Woods Madam " and " Don't Rock the Boat ". So she has been Seduced by the " Look what we have done to Improve the Met Line" . What made me laugh was the reasoning behind the New Met T/T. Quote " The new Met T/T will Benefit the Passengers using the Met as a Whole" . LOL As for the the newish (2011) Met T/T, The Reality is very different . To make the T/T work, every Chesham Train will run 9 times out of 10 Late. Having done a Mini Survey , it seems Punters have no intention of using the Met Peak or Off Peak . This was quite everdant last month when Passengers Crammed them selves into a Chiltern service (1830 N/B) at HTH , when there was a Fast Amersham Service 5 Minutes behind. As for the Chesham Fasts , they just get stuck behind Late running Chilterns as usual at HTH. So.. i stand by Original Post , but i might add 'Ignorance' as well as Arrogance to the Clown who came up with new Met T/T. Happy Days
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Apr 15, 2013 21:04:30 GMT
I got on a Chiltern at Harrow on Thursday at 11:49 and it was formed of 5 cars and there were hardly any seats!
I still stand by my recommendation that the timetable is revised to:
2tph Amersham-Aldgate (fast) 2tph Chesham-Aldgate (semi-fast) 6tph Watford-Baker St (local) 4tph Uxbridge-Baker St (local) 4tph Uxbridge-Aldgate (local)
Ok, so Northwick Park and Preston loose 2tph! 14tph ain't bad!
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Apr 15, 2013 21:26:45 GMT
Its so depressingly British that there is a clear problem here, and highly paid managers are either too inept or too self-gratifying to notice it, yet the grumbling is achieving nothing. Theres a copy of the Met line times between stations from the 1975 wtt here: www.metroland.org.uk/wktt1975/index2.htm I strongly suggest people compare it to the current timetable to see just what exactly the "upgrade" and many millions of pounds of farepayers money has achieved in 40 years.
|
|
|
Post by cooperman on Apr 16, 2013 16:44:11 GMT
I got on a Chiltern at Harrow on Thursday at 11:49 and it was formed of 5 cars and there were hardly any seats! I still stand by my recommendation that the timetable is revised to: 2tph Amersham-Aldgate (fast) 2tph Chesham-Aldgate (semi-fast) 6tph Watford-Baker St (local) 4tph Uxbridge-Baker St (local) 4tph Uxbridge-Aldgate (local) Ok, so Northwick Park and Preston loose 2tph! 14tph ain't bad! metman Are you suggesting your recommendation as a Seven Day T/T . Or a Weekend T/T ? .
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Apr 16, 2013 20:58:17 GMT
Seven day! Why not quite sure how many extra trains are needed maybe one or two and how that affects the maintenance schedule. I'm not a professional I just come up with the ideas This does keep everyone happy too!
|
|
|
Post by A60stock on Apr 22, 2013 16:36:47 GMT
does anyone have a rough idea or any sort of how future timetables between now and the upgrade AND when the upgrade is complete shall be? will be interesting to know the latter
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 18:25:32 GMT
does anyone have a rough idea or any sort of how future timetables between now and the upgrade AND when the upgrade is complete shall be? will be interesting to know the latter LU say post-upgrade timetable will be all stations off peak. Also, and this isn't confirmed so I'll be writing to LU for clarification, but there are rumours kicking around of attempts to get rid of peak fasts and have an all stations only service. If true, this smacks of dogma-driven thinking which will raise questions about the competence of the service planning team. The off peak services are dreadful and completely unacceptable and users are angry about them; quite how regularly commuters would react is anybody's guess, but I'd keep my distance from those suggesting it if I worked for LU!
|
|
|
Post by A60stock on Apr 25, 2013 19:49:01 GMT
interesting, i know this has probably been answered before but what is the actual REAL, reason for removing the fasts of peak? why dont LU even like the idea of running at least 2tph fast or even semi fast? Now would they really remove the peak fasts? what benefit does this give them at all if any? people need to get to work and back in the peaks so surely someone must consider this!
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on Apr 26, 2013 4:16:37 GMT
Maybe just maybe the majority of users would prefer the more frequent service.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 6:57:26 GMT
Maybe just maybe the majority of users would prefer the more frequent service. Maybe...but it's all a question of how you interpret the statistics. For example, a vast number of Met line passengers travel to Harrow and beyond so there would be a massive time/cost benefit to running fast between Finchley Road and Harrow. But that's not being offered....why, when LU are citing increased benefits across the line as their reasoning for the all stations services? In any case, if an improvement for one section of the line results in another section becoming unacceptably slow and tedious, then whatever the wider benefits may appear to be the outcome is not right. Allowing it to happen shows flawed and not terribly clever thinking. Accountability has been shown to be completely lacking here; the campaign on both the timetable and the accountability issue is continuing to gather momentum as there is clearly a problem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 8:39:29 GMT
Its so depressingly British that there is a clear problem here, and highly paid managers are either too inept or too self-gratifying to notice it, yet the grumbling is achieving nothing. Theres a copy of the Met line times between stations from the 1975 wtt here: www.metroland.org.uk/wktt1975/index2.htm I strongly suggest people compare it to the current timetable to see just what exactly the "upgrade" and many millions of pounds of farepayers money has achieved in 40 years. Totally agree Metman, the British Disease - having worked in a number of large companies and worked on many projects to "improve" services, typically it goes over budget, is late, fails to deliver what was promised, with the incompetent yes men/women get big bonuses and promoted, whilst the staff who dare question any of this $%^& are made redundant! XF
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 13:33:33 GMT
Sadly there is a whiff of the 'British Disease' here. As with a number of other train operators they have a captive audience who use their services because they have to. I'm sure the majority of those commuting into London every day would rather be walking 10 mins from home to work, but the harsh reality of life dictates their situation. So you can more or less put on the bare minimum, or a service that doesn't make sense, and customers will still be flooding back for more.
Personally, I think the eventual outcome of this will be a return, or a near return to the traditional service that metropolitan line offered. But only after those in charge have had a little fun at the passengers expense.
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Apr 26, 2013 14:00:10 GMT
I hesitate to intrude on private grief, not being a Met user for many years, but the non-improvement following an "upgrade" is not confined to LU. I have to hand the 1873 Bradshaw. London Brighton was faster then with a Gladstone and a load of dogboxes on the hook than it is now, after 140 years of "upgrade". On the mainline, there is the "excuse" that slower means meeting your punctuality targets, which has generally cost us all an extra 10-15% on pre-privatisation journey times. Is there a similar artificial problem on the tube?
GH
|
|