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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2012 19:49:39 GMT
Perhaps I could chuck a few thoughts in. My partner and I visited the LT Museum a couple of weeks back for a colleagues evening event. Personally as far as exhibits are concerned I thought the place was near empty. You enter through this strange walkway, which seems a waste of space. The mapping idea which it’s supposed to depict is a very good idea. But it seems to be lost on the vast majority of visitors who happily plough past this and the Crossrail displays to enter the atrium beside a Wrights cut away double decker bus. The latter would have been better positioned facing towards visitors entering. But no, we get the back end of the display to greet us! Then when in the Central Hall, you can see the Trains, but how do you get to them? Answer you head round the back of the tram to squeeze past the emergency exit and up some stairs. Or if your lucky you can enter the overhead walkway which is round the back of the large display and up to the walkway. The entrance to which we thought was for staff use only! Mala (my partner) kept tugging on my arm and saying – “Dont think we should be here”. When you get to the trains they seem to be parked in an attic. Unless you really knew they were there you would walk around the lower atrium and back out the front door. Other than a German couple, we were the only people who visited them all night. After a couple of soft drinks I decided to use the toilet. The stench in the Gents was perhaps the worst I had smelt in any public toilet. So bad in fact I decided not to dry my hands in an attempt to get out as quickly as possible. The kindly Museum helper standing outside offered me some tissues. Perhaps unappetisingly the food for the event was being brought out from the kitchen which appeared to be adjacent to these highly smelly toilets. I accept they are trying to appeal to a wide range of tastes. But the exhibits are too thin on the ground to make any sense. It needs more pizzazz. The site was ideally located when it moved from Syon Park and I visited many times with my free staff pass. It felt modern and cavernous. It was worth a visit. I used the shop on many occasions in the past. But now I am not sure I could persuade any of my friends that the place is worth the entry fee let alone visit the shop. The products seem overpriced and aimed mainly at tourists. That’s where the big money clearly is, but how about offering discounts to enthusiasts perhaps on production of a LOTS, LURS, or OS membership card? Without a doubt the Museum staff worked very hard with its redesign, and I understand the reasons why. But if it’s not hitting home then the message is pointless. They do need to start listening to their visitors. So if you do decide to try to interact with the Museum – try getting through to them. I had some problems booking the A stock tour tickets on the website – so we tried to call. You call the switch board during normal office hours, to get given another number which just rang and rang. Eventually I got the website to book my ticket, but having tried several times mistakenly forgot to change the “Tickets to collect at Ticket Office” to “tickets by post”. So the obvious question is where is this ticket office? Moorgate? Covent Garden? More phone calls – no answer. So I use the e-mail address on the ticket confirmation. The only one being “postmaster” on the bottom of the e-mail. Again no reply. They have clearly not made it easy for the public/customers to interact with the Museum. They do not answer the relevant phone and you do not have a specific e-mail address to direct your questions too. Clearly as a customer I would like an e-mail to direct any questions to, as I needed to in this case. Eventually I used the general ‘contact us’ form and got a reply. In fairness I received a reply which confirmed my tickets would be posted once they were printed. And they did arrive in good time complete with a free admission ticket to LTM & the Acton event. So perhaps now is the time to consider relocating to a better less cramped site. Somewhere which has the advantage to hold parallel events. I would support housing the whole museum on one site. The Royal Docks are ideal for this. However if their target audience is the tourist, then that’s all we are going to get. Other than the occasional Acton open day of course. I doubt I will be going back to Covent Garden for another ten years! Dean Your detailed observtions of the layout are shocking and in my opinion indicative of design by commitee faliure, people who have not got a clue or have an unhelpful, distorted agenda. Now it appeals to nobody. Compare the LT Museum in a prime Central London location with all its high profile publicity and backing to what has been achieved by private bus and train/railway preservationists and it is abysmal. The museum shop has eaten up a lot of space with an over the top range. The A stock ticketing on the museum's website was hidden away with lack of information and what was that seating position selection thing meant to be, just useless!
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Post by Chris M on Sept 29, 2012 20:50:50 GMT
The museum shop has eaten up a lot of space with an over the top range. Perhaps what is needed is for TfL to have a large shop in an area of central London with high tourist footfall (whether that is Covent Garden or elsewhere) to generate revenue and act as a shop window for the main museum, which would be located in a less constrained area of London and contain the large exhibits. The central London location could include a gallery of smaller objects for which there was space. The main museum would obviously also have a shop, but the primary focus of the site would not be retail.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2012 23:23:58 GMT
This is almost exactly how the New York Transit Museum operates. They have a shop and gallery at Grand Central Station, right in the heart of Manhattan, and the rest of the stock in a disused Subway station in Brooklyn, which is a bit more of a trek, but well worth it!)
If you used Acton as the main site, and found somewhere else to store the stuff that wasn't for display, then you'd have a fantastic venue, with loads of space, readily accessible by public transport and [PLUG] already has a miniature railway for the kids to ride on [/PLUG]. If there's one thing that kids love about museums, it's stuff that moves!
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Post by bassmike on Sept 30, 2012 1:35:46 GMT
see my post back at the beginning of this thread
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 30, 2012 5:47:55 GMT
A point I made in my last post has been ignored. The collection has to be conserved not displayed.
Sites in Docklands are expensive and the area around the failed London Pleasure Gardens is destined to become a small town in due course.
Given the financial constraints at TfL another site is a non-starter.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 8:43:29 GMT
Mention on the Aldwych branch opens up an interesting possibility. Why not reopen the branch as a preserved railway? Perhaps the idea of an underground preserved railway may not sound exciting but those of us with long enough memories will remember than one such did operate along a disused tunnel between Broadstairs and Ramsgate for nearly 30 years - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsgate_Tunnel_Railway. It closed down largely due to an accident in the mid 1960's before most of today's preserved railways had got off the ground. The 1938 preserved unit probably sits around not doing much for most of the year. I don't know what other former tube stock is still around that is useable. For example that currently stored at Acton or as service stock that can be refurbished.
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 30, 2012 10:31:08 GMT
Mention on the Aldwych branch opens up an interesting possibility. Why not reopen the branch as a preserved railway? Perhaps the idea of an underground preserved railway may not sound exciting but those of us with long enough memories will remember than one such did operate along a disused tunnel between Broadstairs and Ramsgate for nearly 30 years - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsgate_Tunnel_Railway. It closed down largely due to an accident in the mid 1960's before most of today's preserved railways had got off the ground. The 1938 preserved unit probably sits around not doing much for most of the year. I don't know what other former tube stock is still around that is useable. For example that currently stored at Acton or as service stock that can be refurbished. a 2 minute ride on deep level stock - not a lot see down there and lift at Aldwych would have to be replaced. If the LT Museum is in financial trouble money needs to be saved not spent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 11:48:41 GMT
The museum shop has eaten up a lot of space with an over the top range. Perhaps what is needed is for TfL to have a large shop in an area of central London with high tourist footfall (whether that is Covent Garden or elsewhere) to generate revenue and act as a shop window for the main museum, which would be located in a less constrained area of London and contain the large exhibits. The central London location could include a gallery of smaller objects for which there was space. The main museum would obviously also have a shop, but the primary focus of the site would not be retail. Another excellent idea. There was the temporary relocated museum shop in Covent Garden when the museum was closed for the refurb. The suggestion of a shop window I think is a good one and would be good for publicity and revenue and free up space for the museum's main purpose to show off its collection at its best. The shop could be combinded with a toursit information centre if it were in a tourist area.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 12:15:20 GMT
A point I made in my last post has been ignored. The collection has to be conserved not displayed.
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 30, 2012 14:01:32 GMT
Many of the older vehicles have to be stored in a climate controlled environment. This had to be installed at the current site during one of the rebuilds.
The obligation is to preserve the collection not display it. The vehicles could go into store which would save on staff costs.
If the display option is losing money in Covent Garden it is unlikely to make money on any other site.
Partnerships are vital to the future. Perhaps this includes displays of some exhibits in other places.
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Post by v52gc on Sept 30, 2012 16:40:00 GMT
Perhaps I could chuck a few thoughts in. My partner and I visited the LT Museum a couple of weeks back for a colleagues evening event. Personally as far as exhibits are concerned I thought the place was near empty. You enter through this strange walkway, which seems a waste of space. The mapping idea which it’s supposed to depict is a very good idea. But it seems to be lost on the vast majority of visitors who happily plough past this and the Crossrail displays to enter the atrium beside a Wrights cut away double decker bus. The latter would have been better positioned facing towards visitors entering. But no, we get the back end of the display to greet us! Then when in the Central Hall, you can see the Trains, but how do you get to them? Answer you head round the back of the tram to squeeze past the emergency exit and up some stairs. Or if your lucky you can enter the overhead walkway which is round the back of the large display and up to the walkway. The entrance to which we thought was for staff use only! Mala (my partner) kept tugging on my arm and saying – “Dont think we should be here”. When you get to the trains they seem to be parked in an attic. Unless you really knew they were there you would walk around the lower atrium and back out the front door. Other than a German couple, we were the only people who visited them all night. I am not a great fan of the museum's current layout but I do need to point out that you've entered or been hushered through what is normally the exit of the exhibition. The normal path is to enter a lift which takes you "back in time" (up to) the Omnibuses, then you go down a level to the trains before proceeding down another level to the main area with the buses before leaving through "the future" where you entered. Hence why the display of the cutaway bus faced away from you. When I first went after the refurb I liked the "time travel" idea. However I feel they give up on this somewhere between the middle and lower levels. Its a pity and feels like it might have been rushed in the end... Saying that I'm very glad we have a museum to go to!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 16:55:52 GMT
Arh - that explains it!
Thanks for that. Dean
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 17:54:30 GMT
I went to the LTM in Covent Garden with the other half a few months ago for the first time.
I was really looking forward to it, getting in there and seeing what was going on. In the end we stayed for a few hours and left a little disappointed.
The layout was extremely confusing - we went upstairs and made our way down but found that we ended up either in parts we should not be (the classroom area) or made a wrong turn and skipped a few years.
We then got to the ground floor where a group of young men who clearly did not want to be there were being shown around the exhibits - they were pushing infront of us, touching things they shouldnt and generally being loud (very loud) and quite intimidating.
After trying to loose them we moved on past the 38 stock and had a quick go on the simulator there (no kids on this one) - it was ok I suppose but not great.
I was actually looking forward to the Jubilee Line one but of course as stated by someone else it was crawling with kids who seemed intent on trying to break the thing - no supervision, not a care in the world. The kids were literally running riot. I could not stand and look at many exhibits without being barged etc.
In the end after waiting for more than 25 minutes to try and get on the simulator I gave up, had a quick look around the pointless Wright double decker cab section and left.
Whilst I fully agree kids, especially young ones can be loud and a little rowdy - they really need to supervise them a lot more if they are going to be sharing the place with people paying a lot of money to enter and try and enjoy the exhibits.
The biggest letdown - there really is not enough exhibits here to pass the time. Not enough large vehicles, carriages etc and nothing really that modern such as the 83 or even 67.
I know space is at a premium but I cant help but feel that it just is not used correctly. A big shame.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 20:29:57 GMT
Many of the older vehicles have to be stored in a climate controlled environment. This had to be installed at the current site during one of the rebuilds. The obligation is to preserve the collection not display it. The vehicles could go into store which would save on staff costs. If the display option is losing money in Covent Garden it is unlikely to make money on any other site. Partnerships are vital to the future. Perhaps this includes displays of some exhibits in other places. A much bigger site out of Zone 1 would be much better in inspiring interest for the young, better education facilities and to cater for the seasoned transport enthusiast from all over the UK and abroad. The museum with space can then be involved in the special weekend events circuit, like shows and rallies of buses, classic cars, military vehicles, emergency vehicles and railway memorabilia markets etc. At a larger site, under the wing of the GLA, I would also like to see other London heritage vehicles shown, including museum wings showing the London Fire Brigade and Metropolitan Police vehicle collections as well as their smaller exhibits. Storing a vehicle even out of public view costs money.
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Post by d7666 on Oct 4, 2012 21:41:47 GMT
Ref. suggestions for alternative sites, I have always believed that as one former power station - Bankside - has been turned over to the arts** then another former power station - Battersea - should have been turned over as a technology museum, if possible housing items used in London, as an extension to the science Museum. The LT collection and London orientated bits of NRM, and power generation, electricity, telecomms, anything, river barges, as well as items that used to be at Kensington would do well there.
Instead whats happening ? Yet another developer with yet another plan ? I've lost track now of Battersea, some Malaysian developer now is it ?
** or perhaps I should put art in inverted commas as IMHO 99% of what is on display there is pretentious rubbish. I've been there twice, one out of interest then found nothing of interest, the second time a genuine effort to try and see some art and failed dismally.
-- Nick
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 4, 2012 21:54:05 GMT
Ref. suggestions for alternative sites, I have always believed that as one former power station - Bankside - has been turned over to the arts** then another former power station - Battersea - should have been turned over as a technology museum, if possible housing items used in London, as an extension to the science Museum. The LT collection and London orientated bits of NRM, and power generation, electricity, telecomms, anything, river barges, as well as items that used to be at Kensington would do well there. Instead whats happening ? Yet another developer with yet another plan ? I've lost track now of Battersea, some Malaysian developer now is it ? ** or perhaps I should put art in inverted commas as IMHO 99% of what is on display there is pretentious rubbish. I've been there twice, one out of interest then found nothing of interest, the second time a genuine effort to try and see some art and failed dismally. -- Nick Great idea, I have always thought that would be an ideal venue for a transport museum.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 22:58:31 GMT
Ref. suggestions for alternative sites, I have always believed that as one former power station - Bankside - has been turned over to the arts** then another former power station - Battersea - should have been turned over as a technology museum, if possible housing items used in London, as an extension to the science Museum. The LT collection and London orientated bits of NRM, and power generation, electricity, telecomms, anything, river barges, as well as items that used to be at Kensington would do well there. Instead whats happening ? Yet another developer with yet another plan ? I've lost track now of Battersea, some Malaysian developer now is it ? ** or perhaps I should put art in inverted commas as IMHO 99% of what is on display there is pretentious rubbish. I've been there twice, one out of interest then found nothing of interest, the second time a genuine effort to try and see some art and failed dismally. -- Nick Great idea, I have always thought that would be an ideal venue for a transport museum. +1 Battersea Power station site would be very advantageous. I know the transport links are not great, but there is another ex-power station, the former LU one in Lots Road, Chelsea and another vacant riverside further upriver, the old Young's Brewery in Wansdsworth.
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 14, 2012 19:26:21 GMT
Went to the museum today. Doing reasonable business. The RT is back but there is a big gap back to the B type.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 14, 2012 22:02:03 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Oct 14, 2012 23:40:56 GMT
The cynic in me predicts the answer will be a lot of words that say very little. I hope I'm wrong.
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