Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on May 3, 2007 13:01:09 GMT
Anyway, I agree with TB and RCI's aren't on my christmas card list. The majority come across as "wide boys" and think they're old bill, when in reality they're nothing but glorified traffic wardens Quick question: are they (RCIs) on commission, or salaried only??
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Post by Tubeboy on May 3, 2007 14:13:04 GMT
Salaried, were on just over 30k, before the recent pay award.
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Post by nexus6 on May 3, 2007 14:44:52 GMT
RMT's website lists all grades and their respective salaries. Not just LUL, but others too.
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Post by Tomcakes on May 3, 2007 19:46:39 GMT
Of course, what happens if
No ticket machine at originating station SA lets passenger in and tells them to pay at destination Then SA at the station change over and old SA goes home On the journey, the passenger is gripped and explains Gripper rings up originating station New SA answers, knows nothing of this occurance
Does passenger get a penalty fare?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 7:15:58 GMT
In theory yes - but the SS or other staff (if around) should be aware that the machines wer OOS. Also it'd be good practice for the original SA to have told there relief that the machines were up the wall and such some customers did pay @ destination.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 12, 2007 15:47:47 GMT
LUL seems likely to either loose a lot of money by not selling tickets, or loose a small bit of money and have an increase in abused front line staff.
The public dont want to buy tickets from a machine, they want a person who can tell them the best fare, have a reasoned talk with, etc. But no group is in a position to represent the passengers when a fare hike, or automation process is announced. Merely condemn it afterwards. And strikes are counter-productive from a commuters perspective Indeed from what I understand its frustrating for some SS's and SA's not to be able to sell tickets to the public when they are having a quiet period in the office. Combine that with the fact that TfL rushed oyster. It did the whole process far too quickly, and I'm sure did not think of all the problems that might (and have) occured since. Combine this with inherently poor passenger service (not the staff's fault who I'm sure sympathise with the pax) and its only a matter of time before something goes horribly wrong and the point of no return is reached.
I'm sorry for ranting but I honnestly think this is dangerous ground. As soon as people loose the expectation of having a human to buy tickets from there will never be any good enough reason to reintroduce an open ticket office.
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Post by ongarparknride on May 13, 2007 1:43:40 GMT
I have to add some support to Ben's post above @ Reply #35.
Having been unable to visit London for some years, I find reading here a £4 cash minimum ticket -v- Acquiring an Oyster Card (on pay as you go or disclosing bank/credit card details for "top-ups" etc) to be a distinct DisIncentive.
I "used" to buy an off peak day return ticket to London and paid an extra £1'ish for it to cover the central (small C) Tube network, with option for Zones 1-6.
OK, I'm an ignorant peasant living north of Watford, but arguably quoting the Pareto analysis regarding traffic management, I'm now one of the 20% of users causing 80% of the problems. Equally, 80% of the passengers (customers???) are routine commuters, fully knowledgeable of the service, and cause only 20% of the problems.
Not wishing to be political, but for brevity in my reply here, does Mayor Livingston want transport for Londoners, or transport for London including visitors and tourists?
Because it would be simple to put up an explanatory web page for intending visitors and tourists to explain Oyster and how to get one - on line - to cover a short visit.
AND hopefully reduce all the hostility and costs by "Wholly Inadvertently" breaking the by-laws etc. should un-manned ticket dispensers be inoperable even because they are not giving change.
I close with two memories.
First from around 1965 when we were well informed visiting Paris for the first time, we should buy a "carnet" of 10 tickets - first or second class - and we never had any problems on arrival until departure. I doubt that could be said of LU travel for a visitor today.
Second, around 1978 - 1984 I regularly travelled through a variety of LU stations and often noticed HUGE queues at the ticket office. Gawd nose what it's like 20 years later.
My sympathies and kind regards to ALL LU staff. Including the operational management who are trying to run a public service restrained by the dictates of politics.
Cheers, OngarParkNRide
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 9:09:21 GMT
I am still surprised at the amount of people who are prepared to pay £4 per journey, rather than fill out one short form to get an Oystercard!
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Post by nexus6 on May 13, 2007 11:43:23 GMT
I am still surprised at the amount of people who are prepared to pay £4 per journey, rather than fill out one short form to get an Oystercard! Tell me about it. When I was on the stations, it would never cease to amaze me the number of people who would rather pay £4 every time than get an Oyster card. I reckon people would pay £10 if that was what it cost! Mentalists, the lot of 'em! If they have too much money they should throw some my way. ;D
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Post by Tubeboy on May 13, 2007 12:01:19 GMT
Bloke at my old station said he didnt want an Oyster card because TFL would have his personal details. Lots of bodies have your personal info, Tesco, for example, have mine!
Was on the LU pc system last night, RCIs now get £33, 507 pa.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 12:03:19 GMT
I am still surprised at the amount of people who are prepared to pay £4 per journey, rather than fill out one short form to get an Oystercard! You don't have to fill out a form unless you want a monthly or longer travelcard. I think a lot of the hesitancy lies in all the complicated rules around oyster: always touch in and out to avoid paying the maximum fare, only valid on selected NR routes, different peak/off peak capping rates, different fares before 0700/after 1900 on week days etc. Essentially TfL don't want customers to be educated about the product. They want people to "trust them" it's cheaper and ask no questions. But people aren't like that. They want to know how it works and what it will cost. By the time the poor ticket seller (if you can find one!) has explained it all the amount of information is overwhelming.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 13, 2007 14:30:28 GMT
...or want to be able to get a full refund if youre charged the maximum cash fare, or want it protected from theft...
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 13, 2007 14:39:53 GMT
I have to agree though; the rules for tickets and cross-validity are absurd and bewildering for those not in the know. Now that we have computers, why not do away with fare bands and instead have it charged by mile of travel? Flat rate being retained on the buses.
People generally dont trust London Underground or any transport body for the simple fact that theyre only 'educated' about the bad points; underinvestment, broken things, bad timing, strikes, high fares, etc. When was the last time anyone took notice of a report that said things are going well without thinking it was in some way propegander?
Another thing that worries me is the lack of support for eastern european languages on the ticket machines, considering a lot more eastern EU people are now in London. And also the number of people who try to stick their oyster in the credit card slot first time around. Would it be too much for someone to have a poster showing what to do for people who dont know (irrespective of how easy it might be to anyone whos familiar with it)?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 15:16:57 GMT
I've seen people try to put their credit card in the note mechanism... Err... anything you put in there, you probably wont get back!
I'm not all that on-board with Season Tickets, but I presume, TfL would hold the persons details when they had a Paper Season?
Yeah, people muct have money to throw away! £4 say, CFS to NOA, then another £4 to come back...
Oyster is horribly over-complicated; times, capping rates, peak rates, adult capping, child capping, bus only capping.... Maximum cash fare if you don't touch in, despite actually touching in...
I like the idea of Barcode Tickets on Chiltern Trains... I wonder if it will work with my old ancient and obsolete phone? Oh no sir, you need a WAP compatible model, like a Nokia xxxx with Bluetooth and such!
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Post by compsci on May 13, 2007 17:05:31 GMT
Nobody (including one of Chiltern's managers) has yet to provide a sensible answer to what happens if the battery on your phone dies. According to the national conditions of carriage it is acceptable for you to be treated as if you had no ticket at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 17:08:51 GMT
So much for integration!
Now that future builds of trains appear to factor in provision of a PLUG SOCKET, I guess then the onus will be on you to ensure you have your charger with you and to use the on-board supply to keep it thus charged...
This then opens up the question as to what happens if you have your phone swiped?
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Post by nexus6 on May 13, 2007 19:46:27 GMT
I think LUL should charge by the mile. You pay x amount per mile with a higher amount if travelling during peak hours. Simple. No more confusion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 19:49:14 GMT
This sounds a good idea, but then where [time] would you place the Peak/ off peak cut-off?
'Peak' starts earlier in Chesham than it does in say, Archway!
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Post by nexus6 on May 13, 2007 20:00:13 GMT
They could use existing data regarding customer numbers to introduce an optimum, blanket time period. For example, peak is 6am-9am and 4pm-8pm Mon-Fri, off peak is any other time. Much like the existing system, if I'm not mistaken.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2007 15:47:53 GMT
If its done on computerized ticket machines, then the peak time could be programmed into each station individually along with the distance calculations.
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Post by c5 on May 17, 2007 17:39:25 GMT
Taken from www.workersliberty.org/node/8463The ticket offices LUL proposes to close are: Barkingside, Becontree, Boston Manor, Buckhurst Hill, Cannon Street, Canons Park, Chesham, Chiswick Park, Chorleywood, Croxley, Debden, East Putney, Fairlop, Hornchurch, Goldhawk Road, Ickenham, Latimer Road, Mansion House, Mill Hill East, Moor Park, North Ealing, North Harrow, Northwood Hills, Park Royal, Perivale, Ravenscourt Park, Regents Park, Royal Oak, Ruislip, Ruislip Gardens, South Ruislip, Sudbury Hill, Temple, Totteridge & Wealdstone, Upney, West Acton, West Finchley, West Harrow, West Ruislip and Wimbledon Park. In addition, LUL also proposes to shut Canary Wharf (East), Seven Sisters (B) Southwark (West) and Waterloo (International). There are further ticket offices set to reduce their opening hours, including: Oxford Circus (Argyll Street) to close, Hainault to close weekends, Wanstead to close weekends, Waterloo (Shell) to close on Saturdays, Mornington Crescent to close weekends, Goodge Street to close weekends, Alperton to close on Sundays, South Harrow to close weekends, Sudbury Town to close weekends, Barbican to close Sundays, Moorgate (main) to close Saturdays, Shepherds Bush (H&C) to close Sundays, Westbourne Park to close weekends, Dagenham East to close weekends, Dagenham Heathway to close on Sundays, Elm Park to close weekends, Bow Road to close weekends, Bromley By Bow to close weekends, Baker Street (Met) to close Sundays, Euston Square to close Sundays, Great Portland Street to close Sundays, Eastcote to close Sundays, Hillingdon to close Sundays, Northwick Park to close Sundays, Ruislip Manor to close Sundays, Chalfont & Latimer to close Weekends, Northwood to close on Sundays, Pinner to close on Sundays, Rickmansworth to close on Sundays and Watford to close on Sundays. Lambeth North to lose window service between 1430-1630 Mon to Fri, Warwick Avenue 1400-1700 M-F, Epping 1600-1900 M-F, Loughton 1200-1500 M-F, South Woodford 1330-1630 M-F, Woodford 1330-1630 M-F, Waterloo( Shell) 1000-1400 M-F, Dollis Hill 1330-1600 M-F, Mornington Crescent 1100-1630 M-F, Tufnell Park 1400-1700 M-F, High Barnet 1330-1600 M-F, Kennington 1400-1630, Bow Road 1000-1600 M-F, and in addition they propose to remove the current afternoon peak window service from the following stations: Hainault, Redbridge, Snaresbrook Wanstead, Woodside Park, South Harrow, Cockfosters, Westbourne Park, Dagenham East, Hillingdon, Ruislip Manor, Northwood, Pinner, Rickmansworth, and Watford.
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Post by Tubeboy on May 17, 2007 17:48:45 GMT
Oh dear, not good news! I notice the top end of the Northern is affected, in practice, these stns booking offices are only only for the morning peak anyway. Shame though, stn supers will be going next, and will eventually be unstaffed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2007 17:56:53 GMT
That is harrowing to read...
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Post by c5 on May 17, 2007 18:00:34 GMT
Oh dear, not good news! I notice the top end of the Northern is affected, in practice, these stns booking offices are only only for the morning peak anyway. Shame though, stn supers will be going next, and will eventually be unstaffed There was talk about un-staffing stations on Nights and leaving the Site Person(s) In Charge to look after the place - and not break any safety rules or cut corners Just look at the new "Rule" Book, various safety checks have been taken out. The de-skilling has started.... One day, there wont be a "Railway" member of staff on the station that is able to go on the track and have a knowledge of tickets and is able to assist with all the problems that the railway encounters everyday, but just a security guard.... Looks very depressing..... And what about all these Managers that currently manage all these staff - what will they do? Perhaps one of our station brethern could have a guess at how many staff this will affect>..
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on May 17, 2007 19:49:32 GMT
Well there was a figure bandied about by the unions when Oyster first appeared - 800 IIRC.
That seems like a reasonable figure to me.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2007 23:51:51 GMT
Looks very depressing..... It is. Have posted about this in the 'Petition' thread - all I can say is that station staff will not let this happen without a fight - and they will get their own back over this
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on May 20, 2007 3:10:13 GMT
Trouble is, station staff are known to be a weak force when it comes to industrial relations. This issue needs to be tackled by all grades, not just station staff on their own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2007 7:36:30 GMT
Trouble is, station staff are known to be a weak force when it comes to industrial relations. This issue needs to be tackled by all grades, not just station staff on their own. This is true Colin, sometimes train and station side can be a bit divided (which I'd like to see an end to) but this time we need to be one big team. Hopefully it'll build station/train relationship in the future
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2007 16:44:15 GMT
Not forgetting that station staff also allowed management to do this under the SWW and in honesty I can't see how RMT will "back out of the deal".
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on Jun 18, 2007 18:56:28 GMT
One that seems to have got under the radar and the only station that has a notice about this is King's Cross,from 15th July LUL will not accept cheques.
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