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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 18:52:40 GMT
Don't you think that's bad design? Given a target speed the cruise control systems on cars and mainline trains can accelerate to and maintain speeds without on/off acceleration.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 21:36:43 GMT
Having made a few journeys on the JLE recently what I noticed first was the lack of finesse of the Seltrac system at keeping a continuous speed. It's to the detriment of both mechanical longevity and passenger comfort that this hasn't been smoothed out. Its really annoying though especally at lower speeds! Surely this is doing the train no good? Most modern ATO systems just drive to a target speed and stay at that speed without any on/off power. I wish the Jubilee line went for the Distance to Go signaling system much better than this current system basically driving the train like a trainee! You really should reference and credit the originator of your first paragraph here. YouTube 3 months ago.
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Post by tecchy on Apr 1, 2012 22:36:44 GMT
Having made a few journeys on the JLE recently what I noticed first was the lack of finesse of the Seltrac system at keeping a continuous speed. It's to the detriment of both mechanical longevity and passenger comfort that this hasn't been smoothed out. Its really annoying though especally at lower speeds! Surely this is doing the train no good? Most modern ATO systems just drive to a target speed and stay at that speed without any on/off power. I wish the Jubilee line went for the Distance to Go signaling system much better than this current system basically driving the train like a trainee! You really should reference and credit the originator of your first paragraph here. YouTube 3 months ago. I love Google... May I also suggest you use the spell checker and put full stops and capital letters where they should be?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 23:16:08 GMT
In a platform, the target speed is about 3mph. When it departs, it gradually raises. It goes down when approaching a platform. This is really the only cruise control its got. personally, I think they should take down the system and let us drive again like in the good old days.
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Post by t697 on Apr 3, 2012 5:33:49 GMT
In a platform, the target speed is about 3mph. When it departs, it gradually raises. It goes down when approaching a platform. This is really the only cruise control its got. personally, I think they should take down the system and let us drive again like in the good old days. Rode from Canary Wharf to Westminster about 1230 yesterday. Train seemed to be in Manual as everything was smoother and station run-ins were very gentle indeed and train stopped about 1m short several times and then moved up before the doors opened. Seemed to be losing a fair bit of time. That said, the 96TS train has a the ability to demand a wide range of tractive effort, so I don't see why in principle the ATO couldn't use that to make speed control smoother. In ATO it seems to demand full performance and off, repetitively. A restriction of the ATO routines?
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Post by jardine01 on Apr 3, 2012 6:11:35 GMT
probably a driver fed up of ATO haha! Maybe driver training? Trainees drive in PM mode i think.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:56:57 GMT
probably a driver fed up of ATO haha! Maybe driver training? Trainees drive in PM mode i think. They can't. don't forget there aren't any signals. As an instructor operator, I wish they could because I would take over now and then just for fun.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 23:11:23 GMT
canary warf to Westminster is quite fast which means its smoother. It wasnt manually driven - the train will only do 7mph. as for underrunning the platform, well thats just the bad system.
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Post by version3point1 on Apr 4, 2012 23:36:13 GMT
The poor things just don't understand the meaning of coast/O&R either. Hearing those relays click in and out and in and out when the train is going up slight inclines where it hasn't gathered much momentum beforehand, I wonder how long it'll take before they all need replacing because they've burnt themselves out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 21:28:10 GMT
Tbtc, why do you say the train wasn't being manually driven? Numerous JL trains every day are driven manually at full line speed, and there are many new drivers undergoing driver training in driven line speed mode - Protected Manual - the TBTC system has full in cab signalling so you can drive more smoothly than the ATO can, and you can stop short of platforms in error (and overshoot) which has also happened on and off recently. I think you need to go away and learn what the tbtc system is and what you can do with it before posting incorrect information on here again !
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Post by jardine01 on Apr 14, 2012 21:35:08 GMT
I remember when I was down in london talking to a driver when TBTC first started in December 2010 some trains were driven in ATO and others in PM mode.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 21:50:36 GMT
jardine01, yes back then not all trains were ATO 'ready' (or commissioned to be precise) and had to be driven in PM. Pretty much all trains were ATO ready after a few weeks and have been 'normally' placed in ATO mode since early 2011. However, there are still many reasons on a daily basis why you will find trains being driven at line speed in PM mode (driving to the in cab signalling display known as a TOD - train operator display). Some reasons are:- driver training, train out-of-service, trackside worker 'protection' and also on the very odd occasion, poor rail adhesion conditions. If a train is creeping along as per tbtc's description, it is in Restricted Manual and means something significant has failed on either the train or the trackside systems. With the latest timetable in place, PM operated trains that are not 'out of service' will cause significant hold ups through the pipe, less so at the north end of the line. An out of service PM driven train doesn't have such a big impact as it has no dwell requirements in stations, so lost time between stations is made up by non-stopping.
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Post by jardine01 on Apr 16, 2012 21:12:48 GMT
Type this in Youtube (HD) Railride Onboard 1996TS 96054(Queensbury - Stanmore) 10/8/2011) This train sounds like its in manual mode however I think its in ATO. You will see what I mean with some trains faster than others.
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 16, 2012 21:48:41 GMT
Type this in Youtube (HD) Railride Onboard 1996TS 96054(Queensbury - Stanmore) 10/8/2011) This train sounds like its in manual mode however I think its in ATO. You will see what I mean with some trains faster than others. This post is simply another tautologous one; perhaps you chose not to see or didn't understand what sw206 has now said twice in the posts above yours: there are many reasons why some trains run faster than others, the most plausible of which he's mentioned above. You have no way of knowing whether this train was running in TBTC mode or not and, frankly, does it make one iota of difference? Please take the advice and knowledge of people who might understand more about the subject than you rather than being like someone playing snakes and ladders who always has to start at '0' again; it really is getting dull. Can someone lock this thread now, please?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Apr 16, 2012 22:34:32 GMT
Yes please lock this thread
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 22:44:26 GMT
I wonder if its train driving algorithm would do better with an old-style train with an electromechanical camshaft controller. If it's alternating between full power and coasting, then when it coasts, the controller would go back to its initial position, and then have to go back up through the notches, which takes some time to do. This means that it doesn't go to full power instantly, which reduces the instantaneous change in acceleration, also known as jerk. With new trains, they can presumably go from coasting to full power nearly instantly, which makes for a bigger jerk, which is what passengers are finding so uncomfortable.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 17, 2012 1:42:44 GMT
Following the eminently sensible post above.... I wonder if you could robustly replicate a PCM in software terms, interesting. [1]
Thread locked.
[1] yes - not a straightforward bit of modelling. Similar ..er.. 'events' occurred when slugged relays were modelled for the first few times. Machine code is processed faster than a relay arm can lift.
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