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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2012 23:47:34 GMT
While I was browsing the forums at signalbox.org I came across the following photo, showing the new track diagram in the new (?) SER at Edgware Road (OP): www.flickr.com/photos/nickstransportpics/6601530051/in/photostream/Curiously though, another photo shows that the signal frame and the existing diagram are still in place, so I'm curious as to why there is now an SER at the station. www.flickr.com/photos/nickstransportpics/6601477581/in/photostream shows the legion of trainstops implementing the speed control signalling used to protect the starters from a high speed overrun. I'm curious as to whether or not the implementation of these trainstops follows the same principles as the old 1940s-1950s era speed control signalling used on the District. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 2:33:08 GMT
The SER simply contains the actual signalling equipment, the cabin is where that signalling equipment is controlled from, similar to the SER at Leytonstone being controlled by the control centre at Wood Lane or the IMR at Brixton being controlled from Cobourg, only on a much smaller scale. In other words the SER isn't a replacement for the Cabin/frame, merely where the new signalling is contained.
Hope this answers you question!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 13:27:31 GMT
The SER simply contains the actual signalling equipment, the cabin is where that signalling equipment is controlled from, similar to the SER at Leytonstone being controlled by the control centre at Wood Lane or the IMR at Brixton being controlled from Cobourg, only on a much smaller scale. In other words the SER isn't a replacement for the Cabin/frame, merely where the new signalling is contained. Hope this answers you question! Interesting. All of my previous research into the new signalling used elsewhere on the Underground suggested that the SER was the label used for the space where the actual core of the interlocking was housed, and that spaces containing everything else were simply labeled "equipment room" or "relay room". I will have to make note of this new terminology. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2012 0:55:02 GMT
Interesting. All of my previous research into the new signalling used elsewhere on the Underground suggested that the SER was the label used for the space where the actual core of the interlocking was housed, and that spaces containing everything else were simply labeled "equipment room" or "relay room". I will have to make note of this new terminology. There's nothing new there, the SER is exactly what you first thought it was! All SERs will be controlled from a remote 'control point'. it just so happens that at Edgware Road the remote control point is right next door , the signal cabin! Does that mean that the signal frame will shortly be OOU, or is it already OOU? The photo in the photostream does show a pushbutton panel on the left-hand side of the frame but the frame itself appears to still be powered up with all of its levers in use and not 'secured' as other photos of OOU frames have shown. It will kind of be a shame if it is OOU, since it is either the only B-style Westinghouse frame left on the Underground or one of the oldest hand-operated signal frames left on the Underground. An SER is the modern equivalent of an IMR but as there is no EP interlocking machine it has a different name and of course is also recognised as being more than a Relay Room. Where old and new exist side by side I can appreciate how an observer might be confused, Ealing Broadway being a case in point as it has an IMR, SER and a PMc Room. There the local signalman in the tower above the IMR once controlled the entire site from push buttons via the IMR, then the signalman relocated to Earls Court to control the site via IM and PMc and later under the CLP an SER was built to take the new Central line signalling remotely controlled from Wood Lane while the District line was still controlled remotely from Earls Court. Fascinating - I was aware that arrangements were fairly unusual at Ealing Broadway but that takes the cake. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2012 3:22:38 GMT
The new SER contains equipment for the new speed controlled signalling. The old equipment, including the lever frame, is still in use and will be for the foreseeable future.
The pushbuttons are just a new train description panel, which replaces the old one.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 26, 2012 14:22:20 GMT
It will kind of be a shame if it is OOU, since it is either the only B-style Westinghouse frame left on the Underground or one of the oldest hand-operated signal frames left on the Underground. I think that after a lot of discussion at work we concluded that it was the last 'K' Frame, though there is very little difference between the two. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2012 18:52:50 GMT
they sorted out the cooling in the relay room yet?
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Post by citysig on Feb 27, 2012 0:51:41 GMT
The last "K" frame, and indeed the oldest building built for "the purpose of holding a signal frame" (note the wording) on the underground.
Sadly, although it was said to me as a boxboy in 1988, it will soon close. It now has a maximum of 10 years (again). Of course, the original re-signalling was brought and paid for in 1989. Then in 1991. Then in 1996 it was definately going... so don't be surprised if it's still here in 2020.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2012 2:22:17 GMT
The last "K" frame, and indeed the oldest building built for "the purpose of holding a signal frame" (note the wording) on the underground. Sadly, although it was said to me as a boxboy in 1988, it will soon close. It now has a maximum of 10 years (again). Of course, the original re-signalling was brought and paid for in 1989. Then in 1991. Then in 1996 it was definately going... so don't be surprised if it's still here in 2020. If the frame hangs on until 2020, would it become the oldest frame of its type left in its original cabin, doing its original job, in the entire UK? I find it absolutely fascinating that the frame at Edgware Road is still there and still working, even after such a radical change to the signalling at the site. |
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2012 19:37:32 GMT
The last "K" frame, and indeed the oldest building built for "the purpose of holding a signal frame" (note the wording) on the underground. What about Whitechapel? still the same building as used in 1907, or have I got my dates wrong? |
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Post by coyote on Mar 4, 2012 20:16:56 GMT
The last "K" frame, and indeed the oldest building built for "the purpose of holding a signal frame" (note the wording) on the underground. What about Whitechapel? still the same building as used in 1907, or have I got my dates wrong? Liverpool St Met looks even older/original and still has the lever frame inside, although air worked. Mike Horne's list may have a date for it. |
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Post by citysig on Mar 5, 2012 17:12:16 GMT
My information was drummed into me by those who taught me the job there - people who had been on the job decades and had the same information drummed into them. Perhaps chinese whispers may have changed the facts - who knows.
As far as the information I was given goes, the building was there not long after the line was built, though obviously the equipment contained would have been different. There is also a story that the frame was never meant for Edgware Road / didn't start life at Edgware Road, and was altered extensively to fit.
I have never been able to substantiate either fact, so quite willing to stand corrected on both. But the stories must have started from something ;D
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Post by coyote on Mar 5, 2012 19:50:23 GMT
The existing Edgware Road cabin opened in 1926 replacing the 1863 cabin at the other end of the station.
Liverpool St (Met) cabin opened in 1875, the existing frame was insatlled in 1954.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 18:09:13 GMT
I also worked there as a box boy in 1972, working the frame, writing out the booking sheets, polishing the brass on a Sunday, it was a great introduction to working on the underground. Anybody remember Fanny Fielder, the Baker St DI?
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Post by citysig on Mar 7, 2012 19:35:00 GMT
I don't remember her, but I was also a box boy 16 years after you, and Sundays were still reserved for polishing that brass. Unfortunately 2 years after that, a couple of bad apples shall we say decided to have their cake and eat it (not do jobs, not make the tea but still slide away early) and ruined it for everyone that followed. Many happy memories  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 20:51:25 GMT
Fanny was just a knickname for Mr Fielder, one of the old school DI's. Whenever he came in the cabin all he did was stand by the frame and restroke levers 1 and 2, he thought he was helping the signalman lol. Yes happy days they really were.
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Post by citysig on Mar 7, 2012 21:38:14 GMT
;D ;D And believe me he wasn't the last duty manager to do that and think they knew the cabin. One of them who visited (when I was actually the signalman, rather than the boy) tripped a train in his eagerness to "restroke 1s and 2s." I think my words were along the lines of "(Expletive) you're meant to let a train go past first (expletive)" ;D ;D
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Post by JR 15secs on Mar 8, 2012 8:29:47 GMT
I also worked there as a box boy in 1972, working the frame, writing out the booking sheets, polishing the brass on a Sunday, it was a great introduction to working on the underground. Anybody remember Fanny Fielder, the Baker St DI? Charlie Fielder worked the frame before that but he was terrified and so kept at the Baker Street end of the frame was safer I remember being in the cabin when he pulled off for a Hammersmith to go to the Circle a release was taken with no delay booked the controller was Bill McCarthy who was Jack's regular controller. Jack would always go to his locker whenever he saw any DI that was coming to the cabin he would take out a whiskey bottle half full and when the DI entered would have a swig, the face of the DI would change and they would say you can't do that little did they know it was vinegar all just a joke. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 17:40:11 GMT
DI Fielder with all the scrambled egg on his big hat coming up the steps to the cabin was always a good sight, especially if Jack Bradbury was the signalman, you knew you were in for a lot of fun.
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