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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2007 22:44:26 GMT
£42.50 for a ODTC? More than I thought... I suppose our cheapest Annual would be Leicester Sq - Covent Gdn?!?!?
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jan 16, 2007 22:48:23 GMT
A season ticket to Ryde was about £112. The cheapest First Class Season was Twickers-St Margarets and I think North Sheen-Twickers. In theory that entitled you to the free SWT First Class tickets. So you could then get free FC tickets to say Exeter Central from Waterloo. Barry Doe commented: .. to qualify for the SWT perks you need to buy your Gold Card for an SWT journey and at an SWT station (they need not be the same). The cheapest tends to be around £225 for SWT (St Margarets-Twickenham, though there might be cheaper ones, but nothing under £200) so it depends whether that's worth it against the Ryde version of £112. Certainly a Travelcard offers you the whole of the National Rail network within the zones, not just tubes, trams and buses. It's not cheaper to rebook a Travelcard en route. That applies to fares like Savers but rarely to Cheap Day Returns or Travelcards. There is now doubt whether the free tickets are indeed FC or Standard Class. I also mentioned to him: I picked up a copy of the SWT's E-MOTION magazine. I was interested to see a couple of things relating to fares. It mentioned firstly about Gold Cards, and that in order to join the Gold Card club you need to have purchased the GC in the SWT area...for the free tickets etc. ... Then in the comments and answers pages there is a mum who complained about the wide disparity in SWT fares. Her two kids go by train to school from Farnham to Guildford and London Road Guildford. The extra charge for the one stop more she dsaid was out of all proprtion to the distance travelled and time taken. The Head of Commercial Services replied that SWT's fares had increasingly been based on comercial criteria. Because of...market forces...they had reduced the Farnham to Guildford fare which was 10% lower than in 1995. However the reductions did not apply to the Farnham to London Road fare although it had gone up by less than inflation...14% over 11 years. The cost per mile for one return ticket was 3.54p to Guildford and 3.75 to London Road.
Basically it seems that they had to attract Farnham traffic but London Road was on the Cobham route where the punters can afford it, so tough! As to the shortest distance, I always thought that Northfields-South Ealing was tied with Covent Garden-Leicester Square, and so the fares years ago reflected this. These days it seems that CG-LS is the "shortest". If the wartime additional exit from Northfields had been engineered differently you could have walked from the east platform end to South Ealing Road!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 17, 2007 2:24:39 GMT
Yeah, it was announced in the Substandard that Dagenham East and Romford will have Oyster Readers by June. Quite why these two stations were selected is beyond me... Someone didn't read their newspaper properly!! Dagenham Dock and Rainham are the stations that will get Oyster readers (they are within the current T fL boundry) Ockendon and Chafford Hundred are set to get readers by Summer 2008... they are outside the Zones 1-6, so what will they do, extend the A-D zones all the way around? Where did you get this information from? Ockendon is my local station and this is the first I've heard of any concrete plans. T fL have extended the London buses area to include Ockendon, Aveley and the Lakeside shopping centre - but rail is not currently included in that extension. There is a proposed rail extension, for the purposes of T fL, to go as far as Grays - both from Dagenham Dock and Upminster, but that proposal is far from becoming reality at the moment.
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Post by MarkP on Jan 17, 2007 11:44:34 GMT
Ockendon and Chafford Hundred are set to get readers by Summer 2008... they are outside the Zones 1-6, so what will they do, extend the A-D zones all the way around? Where did you get this information from?It's in the T fl press release - in the notes for editors part! tinyurl.com/2xuog8 Does this mean that eventually there's a chance Oyster will be extended further out on the Laindon line - I certainly hope so!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 20:26:59 GMT
Thanks to markp for providing the linky... Don't know why I put Dag east instead of Dag Dock, but great news...
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 17, 2007 20:38:42 GMT
Ockendon and Chafford Hundred are set to get readers by Summer 2008... they are outside the Zones 1-6, so what will they do, extend the A-D zones all the way around? If they do, why not just make it simpler and carry on the numbering - i.e. make zone A into zone 7, zone B into zone 8, etc?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 20:50:10 GMT
Hmm, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how other Train Operating Companies react...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 20:56:10 GMT
Ockendon and Chafford Hundred are set to get readers by Summer 2008... they are outside the Zones 1-6, so what will they do, extend the A-D zones all the way around? If they do, why not just make it simpler and carry on the numbering - i.e. make zone A into zone 7, zone B into zone 8, etc? Toooooooo Simple
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 20:59:28 GMT
It's bad enough remembering what station is in what zone... without needing to add extras!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 9:18:57 GMT
Ockendon and Chafford Hundred are set to get readers by Summer 2008... they are outside the Zones 1-6, so what will they do, extend the A-D zones all the way around? If they do, why not just make it simpler and carry on the numbering - i.e. make zone A into zone 7, zone B into zone 8, etc? I believe that was the proposal that extra zones would be created forming an area roughly Gatwick/ Reading/ Stevenage/ Southend (Not exact locations). From memory I think they were looking at Z1-16. Oyster on NR country wide would be fairly difficult to introduce. You have examples where different operators charge different fares for the same journey, how would Oyster handle that?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 18, 2007 18:41:17 GMT
Having the reader on the train would be one way of doing it, although I don't imagine that that would be very practical.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 22:22:10 GMT
yeah, say if a particular unit, leased to one toc was loaned to another, on the same route, at short notice...? Unless it was set up in relation to the trains computer system, even that would be expensive... One hazards a guess that, in 20 years time, the paper ticket will be no more...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2007 12:52:23 GMT
Why on earth me asks meself does the Tube even have paper tickets in the first place? Even systems as rubbish as Putra and Star in Kuala Lumpur have plastic magnetic tickets.
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Post by amershamsi on Jan 19, 2007 16:13:44 GMT
you mean as bits of plastic that have a magnetic strip?
the tube must have paper tickets as it always has paper tickets, and the magnetic strip etc is all rather old, and it was cheaper just to carry one having paper.
most European systems seem to use paper - Milan did when I went there (they didn't have barriers).
Are the tickets reused? If so how can validity be checked by people without magnetic strip checkers - all tube tickets show what the ticket is valid for, so that 1)the passenger, if he has some old ticket in his pocket (happened to me before) he can see that it's the wrong one and 2)staff can see at a glance if the passenger has a correct ticket - for instance I could buy an Amersham-Chalfont return, and then go gricing round London, within the fared area, completely illegally, and then use that ticket to get out at Amersham.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 19, 2007 16:38:03 GMT
The tickets in Frankfurt were paper (combined tram, bus, S-bahn, and U-bahn) , as were the suburban rail tickets in Malaga. or instance I could buy an Amersham-Chalfont return, and then go gricing round London, within the fared area, completely illegally, and then use that ticket to get out at Amersham. You couldn't though leave the system at any other station. I'm also not certain whether you could exit the station at Amersham without having exited and re-entered at Chalfont?
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Post by amershamsi on Jan 19, 2007 17:14:47 GMT
I'm also not certain whether you could exit the station at Amersham without having exited and re-entered at Chalfont? easy - they leave the gates open outside the peaks and go back to old school (if they can be bothered even to do that) and just look at tickets.
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Post by compsci on Jan 19, 2007 18:28:25 GMT
Some metro systems, New York in particular, have a flat fare, and hence are only concerned with charging people when they enter. When tokens existed in New York there was no way that a passenger could easily provide proof that they paid, but neither was such proof required as there is no concept of going too far for your fare.
The Metrocard is a credit card like magnetic card, and is the main method of payment (excepting smartcard trials etc). The balance can be checked at readers, but really all anyone is concerned with is whether it operates the turnstile. In theory the station of last use could be checked by staff, but the bylaws do not require passengers to have a valid ticket (because it used to be eaten by the turnstile).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2007 22:09:35 GMT
So, the old system of using 'slugs' [fake tokens, or things that the turnstyle would consider a token] for the turnstyles is no longer possible?
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Post by compsci on Jan 19, 2007 23:55:05 GMT
The token slots are now welded shut. For a while it was possible to get a similar, probably even easier result using a Metrocard bent in the right place. After three swipes the turnstile would panic and let you in anyway. Now they just get you to pop the card in the post with a begging letter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 15:21:45 GMT
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Feb 23, 2007 1:04:00 GMT
Let's face it - ken has done a good job of screwing us all up - with oyster. What a pathetic waste of space he is. Hope he is gone from our world sooner rather than later. Good riddance. Well something has certainly got your back up Alex, but that aside, Oyster was on the table long before Ken Livingstone came to power - it just so happened that it went public when he came to office.
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Post by District Dave on Feb 23, 2007 9:05:04 GMT
Well something has certainly got your back up Alex, I *think* he's had a bad day...........
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 11:21:14 GMT
I did Dave - sorry to let it interfere with the forum. The posts I made yesterday have been amended as they were not sensible, and not really a true reflection of what I really think. Ignore them - I'm ok now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 12:42:42 GMT
Oyster was on the table long before Ken Livingstone came to power - it just so happened that it went public when he came to office. Hmm, how very convenient this was, too!
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Post by tubeprune on Feb 23, 2007 12:43:12 GMT
I like my Oyster PAYG. I can go anywhere without worrying about paper tickets, it's quicker through the barriers, it works on the buses, and it now tops up automatically as well. I just wish it was available across the country on all public transport.
I don't see why it has screwed anyone up. Have I missed a point here?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 12:49:36 GMT
It's just that it doesn't work as well as it should do - and creates grief for station staff. If it worked properly all the time it'd be fine. The thing that gets me is that people will look at their watch, think it is 09:30 and tap in, expecting the journey to go towards their off peak cap - the gates think it's 09:29! The thing doesn't cap when it should do and it all goes wrong. Also the four pound thing was a disaster at first, but now as the punters are getting used to the idea it is not as bad.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 12:51:39 GMT
Aye, tubeprune, can't wait to see it available at all National Rail Z1 - Z6 stations, now that Kenny L has given the TOC's a £20m sweetener... I wonder if all those TOC's will allow staff to travel on their trains?
This is the thing alex, I think there needs to be a clock on the actual Gate POD, that one on the station may be out of sync with the 'Oyster time'. Either that, or the gates need to flash up OFF PEAK CAP APPLIES NOW, or summat.
Another advance that could be made, is to have the one Day TC available to load onto the card, capped at 50p less still; when you touch in, it deducts the full amount for the zones you have selected, rather than £1.50 here, 40p there, £1.00 elsewhere. it would make things easier and reduce confrontation over the £4 max fare penalty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 12:55:00 GMT
I'd like a bit of NR 1-6 myself. Very reasonable indeed........... You're spot on ATO, there should be something like that on the POD. It is a good idea and would elimanate these problems
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2007 13:19:51 GMT
Survey reveals that the £4 max fare penalty from not touching in/out with Oyster PAYG has raked in an extra £350,000!
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Post by cetacean on Feb 23, 2007 15:13:31 GMT
Survey reveals that the £4 max fare penalty from not touching in/out with Oyster PAYG has raked in an extra £350,000! How's that calculated? The penalty fare only gets charged when the system doesn't know how much the journey should have cost, so do you work out how much is "extra"?
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