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Post by suncloud on Feb 13, 2015 19:01:13 GMT
Can't imagine it being a profitable location for a restaurant given the location is a bit out of the way once the station closes...
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Post by melikepie on Feb 13, 2015 19:27:27 GMT
How ample is parking currently at Watford?
And actually with the Waverley Line there have been many new viaducts and reroutings. Apparently the infrastructure will be built as such that it will be possible to electrify the line.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 13, 2015 23:26:57 GMT
In any case the old bridge will remain as the tracks into Watford Met and the site will be used for stabling up to 4 or 5 empty trains. . The question was about the LNWR bridge on the approach to Croxley Green station. This one Not the Metropolitan Railway bridge between Croxley and Watford - this one Apparently the [Waverley] infrastructure will be built as such that it will be possible to electrify the line. . There are many existing structures on the Waverley Line but I would be very surprised if any new rail infrastructure other than extensions to the Deep Tubes are not built with sufficient clearance to string up OHLE. Not just the Borders Line, but any overhead structures on the Croxley Link too! |
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Post by roythebus on Feb 14, 2015 12:42:41 GMT
Any new lines have to be built to take OHLE.
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Post by arun on Feb 14, 2015 18:57:29 GMT
Thank you for those answers. It would be interesting to know the relative £M/mile of HS1/HS2/Crossrail/Jubilee Line Extn & the Overground linking bit between New Cross Gate and the Millwall Foootie Ground to name but a few.
Arun
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Post by melikepie on Feb 14, 2015 19:26:15 GMT
At time of building, HS1 was £80 million a mile, easily much more than these projects. The new link is just less than 3 miles so with the new estimation it is £77 million\mile. If HS1 was built now it would cost even more.
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Post by domh245 on Feb 15, 2015 0:03:33 GMT
But arguably, croxley is partly so (relatively) expensive because of its short nature. A lot of fixed costs such as administration, tendering of contracts, and the like will remain the same for any rail project, be it .5 miles or 50. There would probably also be cost savings from where hs1 was running, a lot cheaper to buy the land out in Kent than in Watford. But yes, if it were built today, with the current economic climate, it'd certainly cost more
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Post by trt on Feb 15, 2015 16:37:56 GMT
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Post by trt on Feb 17, 2015 15:55:12 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Feb 17, 2015 22:20:07 GMT
I think the MP has got somewhat ahead of himself. Comments elsewhere suggest there are two weeks to resolve an impasse as to who does what on the project and at what cost and who holds the risk for any overruns / issues. HCC want to deliver the civil works and then hand them over to LU. LU wants to manage the entire project including the civils. HCC have already tendered the civil works and have firm prices. However splitting the works creates design and interface risks. Not easy to resolve if people cling to their respective positions and there's no money to loosen their grip on said positions. If there is not a resolution shortly then approval and release of the money cannot be achieved before the purdah period for the General Election. This is, of course, the MP who thinks he personally raised all the cash for the project! |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 17, 2015 22:47:43 GMT
I think the MP has got somewhat ahead of himself. Comments elsewhere suggest there are two weeks to resolve an impasse as to who does what on the project and at what cost and who holds the risk for any overruns / issues. HCC want to deliver the civil works and then hand them over to LU. LU wants to manage the entire project including the civils. HCC have already tendered the civil works and have firm prices. However splitting the works creates design and interface risks. Not easy to resolve if people cling to their respective positions and there's no money to loosen their grip on said positions. If there is not a resolution shortly then approval and release of the money cannot be achieved before the purdah period for the General Election. This is, of course, the MP who thinks he personally raised all the cash for the project! I know this'll sound embarrassingly simplistic but how on earth did such an important project get to this stage without all the details being sorted out? When I was planning large IT projects in a previous life I'd have been in serious trouble if I'd made such fundamental omissions from my calculations. I don't smell the scorched flesh of fired companies here. |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 17, 2015 23:16:41 GMT
I think the MP has got somewhat ahead of himself. Comments elsewhere suggest there are two weeks to resolve an impasse as to who does what on the project and at what cost and who holds the risk for any overruns / issues. HCC want to deliver the civil works and then hand them over to LU. LU wants to manage the entire project including the civils. HCC have already tendered the civil works and have firm prices. However splitting the works creates design and interface risks. Not easy to resolve if people cling to their respective positions and there's no money to loosen their grip on said positions. If there is not a resolution shortly then approval and release of the money cannot be achieved before the purdah period for the General Election. This is, of course, the MP who thinks he personally raised all the cash for the project! I know this'll sound embarrassingly simplistic but how on earth did such an important project get to this stage without all the details being sorted out? When I was planning large IT projects in a previous life I'd have been in serious trouble if I'd made such fundamental omissions from my calculations. I don't smell the scorched flesh of fired companies here. Complete guess but I suspect the County Council have had their assumptions wrecked by the never ending demands for cuts to their budgets. Many many local authorities are struggling to retain expertise in things like highways because they can't pay decent rates and their capital programmes have been slashed [1]. If I was running HCC I would not want to be taking on a railway project when I've got no money for such a specialised task. I'd want to hand it over to people who know about railways. It is also worth bearing in mind that the scope has changed in respect of the interface with Network Rail's tracks into Watford and the project cost has gone in the wrong direction. All of that means that HCC remaining in charge is less and less plausible and more and more risky for the Council. To be fair most IT projects (outside of government) tend not to suffer such changes in circumstance as a result of politics. [1] I certainly heard that from London Borough reps when I attended a forum at City Hall last year. It's a real concern given all the pressure to build cycle lanes, improve pedestrian facilities and keep the roads in good shape. The lack of resources is why it can take forever for the simplest of schemes to crawl off the drawing board and into reality. There was a call for TfL to "loan" their experts and engineers to the Boroughs to help push things along. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 23:32:10 GMT
At best more delays at worst canned. To many fingers in the pie with one problem after another and to think the UK was built on it's railways! CrossRail will be up and running before this project is finished i would wager!
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 18, 2015 1:14:47 GMT
At best more delays at worst canned. To many fingers in the pie with one problem after another and to think the UK was built on it's railways! CrossRail will be up and running before this project is finished i would wager!
Or even the fantasy line to the Solar System!  |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 18, 2015 5:55:42 GMT
At best more delays at worst canned. To many fingers in the pie with one problem after another and to think the UK was built on it's railways! CrossRail will be up and running before this project is finished i would wager!
Or even the fantasy line to the Solar System! I'm afraid even that is in jeopardy JT. A couple of local councillors were unable to properly comprehend the scope and purpose of the project so until they can the rockets lie idle.  ? |
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 18, 2015 8:59:48 GMT
Or even the fantasy line to the Solar System! I'm afraid even that is in jeopardy JT. A couple of local councillors were unable to properly comprehend the scope and purpose of the project so until they can the rockets lie idle. ? Probably their IQ was less than their shoe size? |
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Post by geoffc on Feb 27, 2015 20:02:35 GMT
Have I missed something ? I can't see why HCC are so anxious to retain the civil engineering part of the scheme. Were they expecting a portion of the fare revenue and hope to make decent profit on their £100M . If that seemed a good idea some years ago - surely there are too many risks now. Govt. spending is going to be slashed after the election regardless - UK PLC is still spending more than we earn . Politically HCC cannot afford to borrow to build the line with a 15-20 year payback when other council services are being decimated. I appreciate HCC's lead over the years but please pass the project to LT and bow out gracefully.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 27, 2015 21:01:13 GMT
I suspect it's mostly a desire to see it actually happen. If they ensure the civil engineering gets done then there is pressure on everyone else to get their bits done.
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Post by trt on Mar 17, 2015 12:10:39 GMT
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Post by thc on Mar 17, 2015 19:01:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 21:05:47 GMT
I am pleased to read this however how many times can the same project get the go ahead? Lets hope Watford Jct. will have platform 5 reinstated as with the potential increase in Overground services and together with the Met will need more platform space and then there is the potential Amersham service.
Meanwhile I am heading to Watford with Croxley WRD and have been working on this again today and this project is running late and is over budget, so prototypical LOL!
XF
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Post by snoggle on Mar 26, 2015 18:12:09 GMT
Have we possibly reached the final sign off as Boris has agreed to TfL taking on the Croxley Rail link project? Mayorwatch article just published so I assume these are last minute things before purdah kicks in on Monday when Parliament is dissolved and the election campaign starts in earnest. EDIT - the owner of the Mayorwatch blog tells me this was the final sign off meeded so the project will now proceed. I imagine there will be a City Hall press release tomorrow. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 27, 2015 17:16:46 GMT
Just been sent the TfL press release about the Croxley Link. It's not yet on the TfL website so here's a cut and paste of the relevant bits.
One or two small extra details there but broadly as we were told a day or so ago.
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Post by metman on Mar 27, 2015 21:08:46 GMT
The additional S8 unit is what is being paid for I assume and I guess it will be numbered 117/118?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 11:03:41 GMT
It will be interesting to see what the plans for Watford Jct's DC platforms are!
XF
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Post by trt on May 29, 2015 9:03:52 GMT
Work is now well under way on the (IMHO disgusting) new link road between the "health campus" site and Dalton Way (across the Gaelic football pitches). As a result of this bulldozer activity, the embankments which used to hold the southern curve near Wiggenhall Road Depot have all but disappeared and will soon have gone for good.
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Post by marri260 on May 29, 2015 22:12:35 GMT
Haven't bothered to look at the plans for the new road, but judging from the land that has been cleared, it'll pass straight through the site of Croxley Green Depot.
The depot pits are still there obviously, just filled in with rubble/concrete/whatever else. A small section of the inspection pits from the depot remain open right at the start of the depot shed where the tracks fanned out from bridge 3A. I'll get around to posting some pictures soon.
When the trees were removed from the old southern curve a few months ago, on the depot side of the road it was possible to see a small section of the original abutment for the bridge that carried the curve over Wiggenhall Road. Didn't get a chance to get a picture unfortunately.
Also interesting to note that included into the recent S Stock CIS update, are the destination codes to set a train up as heading to 'Watford Junction'.
On the TCMS (train control management system), Cassiobrdge is abbreviated as 'CAI', Watford Vicarage Road as 'WVR', Watford High Street as 'WFH' and Watford Junction as 'WFJ'.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 7:44:59 GMT
Work is now well under way on the (IMHO disgusting) new link road between the "health campus" site and Dalton Way (across the Gaelic football pitches). As a result of this bulldozer activity, the embankments which used to hold the southern curve near Wiggenhall Road Depot have all but disappeared and will soon have gone for good. I was disappointed to see the that all of the former southern curved had been removed, yet again more shortsighted thinking which has plagued this line for decades! How long until the reality of the capacity issues at Watford Jct start to be seriously considered? I would hazard a guess that the get out of jail card for LU in the short term to have some trains terminateing Croxley and running ECS to what will be the former Watfird Met Station, which will defeat the object of this link and provide a worse service on the Met than there is currently! XF |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 7:49:29 GMT
Haven't bothered to look at the plans for the new road, but judging from the land that has been cleared, it'll pass straight through the site of Croxley Green Depot. The depot pits are still there obviously, just filled in with rubble/concrete/whatever else. A small section of the inspection pits from the depot remain open right at the start of the depot shed where the tracks fanned out from bridge 3A. I'll get around to posting some pictures soon. When the trees were removed from the old southern curve a few months ago, on the depot side of the road it was possible to see a small section of the original abutment for the bridge that carried the curve over Wiggenhall Road. Didn't get a chance to get a picture unfortunately. Also interesting to note that included into the recent S Stock CIS update, are the destination codes to set a train up as heading to 'Watford Junction'. On the TCMS (train control management system), Cassiobrdge is abbreviated as 'CAI', Watford Vicarage Road as 'WVR', Watford High Street as 'WFH' and Watford Junction as 'WFJ'. If there is capacity problems at Watfird Jct I suggest the TCMS could be WTF! - Watord is Full of course XF |
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Post by marri260 on May 30, 2015 9:19:56 GMT
Haha may turn out to be rather appropriate! Will certainly be interesting to see what is done to improve the capacity at Watford Junction DC.
Wasn't there a mention of a crossover being installed at Watford Vicarage Road?
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