castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Nov 30, 2011 8:38:04 GMT
@ shedcompnodosh > Why do you presume I hold "all the passenger demand figures for said branch"??. I said that it is the London Borough of Hillingdon who have made the official request. I presume they have sufficient reason and have had sufficient knowledge of the passenger demand to request this.
And what "statement" are you referring to about THEIR request being "more and more fanciful"? Sorry, but I really don't understand your response.
Compared to some of the fantastic projects that I've read on here, this would be one of the easiest to implement. There is plenty of space south of the existing depot, and, it is something that should have been done 65 years ago when Uxbridge was still a rural town.
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Post by citysig on Nov 30, 2011 11:31:08 GMT
Diverting/extending the Central Line will not be happening this side of 2025 I can tell you for more or less certain. That's if it ever happens.
Recent internal communication regarding such things as the new control centre, new trains (Picc and SSR) and lots of other bits and pieces, rule out any possibility of the Central coming our way.
They don't rule out the Picc being concentrated onto Heathrow and abandoning the Uxbridge Branch - however they also don't state that this will definately happen either.
So I think for now both ideas could be safely put to bed - no matter what a council or individual believes will happen.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Nov 30, 2011 11:46:00 GMT
@ Metcontrol
Never discount the possibility that something can be done if politicians make money available for it.
Anyway, internal communications generally find reasons for things not being done that might otherwise get done. It all needs a mind change, looking for positives rather than negatives> Finding reasons "why" & "how" rather than reasons "why not", (which seem to be the norm). Perhaps if people won't look forward, they should be replaced with people who will.
Politics are now involved, so money can magically be made available. Never say "never"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 12:42:13 GMT
@ shedcompnodosh > Why do you presume I hold "all the passenger demand figures for said branch"??. I said that it is the London Borough of Hillingdon who have made the official request. I presume they have sufficient reason and have had sufficient knowledge of the passenger demand to request this. And what "statement" are you referring to about THEIR request being "more and more fanciful"? Sorry, but I really don't understand your response. Compared to some of the fantastic projects that I've read on here, this would be one of the easiest to implement. There is plenty of space south of the existing depot, and, it is something that should have been done 65 years ago when Uxbridge was still a rural town. I presume quite the opposite in terms of you holding demand figures for the LHR branch of the Picc It has been 12tph for a good number of years and there are no plans to increase this in the near future Lumping more trains up there for what purpose ? Your other point about reversing Piccs at Rayners (as no longer required at Uxbridge) Picc's go to Uxbridge as a reversing location as much as anything, a good number of passengars have already alighted by South Harrow How do you propose to reverse 8tph Picc at Rayners? And lets base this on the current track layout and not on futuristic donations by Hillingdon Borough council to radically alter the track layout at Rayners Lane! |
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Post by v52gc on Nov 30, 2011 14:01:26 GMT
Using the current layout the Pic could reverse 8tph at Rayners (although I disagree with doing this) by reversing off the platform or double manning trains into the sidings with two platform staff to detrain AND (for both ways) drivers stepping back.
However looking at reversing Pics at Ruislip if the Central were to go to Uxbridge I think a new siding or crossover at Ruislip would be needed. The current one used to reverse would become a through route on the Central.
So if the Central goes to Uxbridge forget about the reversing siding at Ruislip as it is now I think.
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vato
Zone 6D - Special Fares Apply
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Post by vato on Nov 30, 2011 15:31:57 GMT
Just to be contrary, not all Chesham folk dislike the change to direct trains, and nor does the new timetable look dreadful. We'll have to see what it's like in reality, of course.
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Post by cooperman on Dec 1, 2011 18:45:03 GMT
Just to be contrary, not all Chesham folk dislike the change to direct trains, and nor does the new timetable look dreadful. We'll have to see what it's like in reality, of course. Ok fair Comment. Have you done a Journey Planner ?. I have just done one from the TFL website. Traveling from " Canary Wharf " to "Chesham " at 0700 Peak Time on the 7th Of December . Duration 1 hour 11mins . One week later Duration 1 hour 24mins . I thought it was only the Off peak Services that have changed.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 19:08:14 GMT
Just to be contrary, not all Chesham folk dislike the change to direct trains, and nor does the new timetable look dreadful. We'll have to see what it's like in reality, of course. Ok fair Comment. Have you done a Journey Planner ?. I have just done one from the TFL website. Traveling from " Canary Wharf " to "Chesham " at 0700 Peak Time on the 7th Of December . Duration 1 hour 11mins . One week later Duration 1 hour 24mins . I thought it was only the Off peak Services that have changed. You thought wrong It's only the peak services in the peak direction of travel that remain unchanged Contra peak services revert to the off peak service pattern of an all slow railway The only exception being half a dozen or so trains that run on the fasts between HOH and WPK in the contra peak direction |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 1, 2011 19:24:51 GMT
OK thanks for that. Oh well ... looks like i will be travelling to Amersham , which doesn't seem to be Affected .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 19:27:16 GMT
OK thanks for that. Oh well ... looks like i will be travelling to Amersham , which doesn't seem to be Affected . Perhaps its just the connection that works out differently as opposed to the journey time? ie - the Chesham leaves at a different xx mins past the hour? What time are you looking into Chesham? |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 1, 2011 19:50:33 GMT
OK thanks for that. Oh well ... looks like i will be travelling to Amersham , which doesn't seem to be Affected . Perhaps its just the connection that works out differently as opposed to the journey time? ie - the Chesham leaves at a different xx mins past the hour? What time are you looking into Chesham? I would leave Canary Wharf at say 0700 ,pick up my connection at Baker Street . This would have been the 0727 (LF) departure ex Aldgate to Chesham . This would arrive at 0815 in Chesham. The New TT puts this train back to 0720 , but arrives 0820 in Chesham . Having done a Journey Planner Leaving Chesham on my return to work at 1800 , this take i hour 23. Happy Days |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 20:02:57 GMT
Perhaps its just the connection that works out differently as opposed to the journey time? ie - the Chesham leaves at a different xx mins past the hour? What time are you looking into Chesham? I would leave Canary Wharf at say 0700 ,pick up my connection at Baker Street . This would have been the 0727 (LF) departure ex Aldgate to Chesham . This would arrive at 0815 in Chesham. The New TT puts this train back to 0720 , but arrives 0820 in Chesham . Having done a Journey Planner Leaving Chesham on my return to work at 1800 , this take i hour 23. Happy Days You take a hit for 2 reasons Running via the local lines - adds on 5 minutes The other reason is that your train gets regulated by around 7 minutes at various locations including 2 minutes stand time at Ricky and 3 minutes at C&L This is largely beacuse you can't get up the branch as a train is coming off it |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 1, 2011 22:07:00 GMT
I would leave Canary Wharf at say 0700 ,pick up my connection at Baker Street . This would have been the 0727 (LF) departure ex Aldgate to Chesham . This would arrive at 0815 in Chesham. The New TT puts this train back to 0720 , but arrives 0820 in Chesham . Having done a Journey Planner Leaving Chesham on my return to work at 1800 , this take i hour 23. Happy Days You take a hit for 2 reasons Running via the local lines - adds on 5 minutes The other reason is that your train gets regulated by around 7 minutes at various locations including 2 minutes stand time at Ricky and 3 minutes at C&L This is largely beacuse you can't get up the branch as a train is coming off it Ok thanks for the reply. It does seem Chesham is going to take the Brunt of these changes. Getting back to your earlier point about the Peak times , does this mean i shouldn't have to pay the peak time Tariff going back up North as this is an off Peak service ..... I wish. ;D |
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Post by causton on Dec 1, 2011 22:14:31 GMT
Well if you go into London in the evening peak (i.e. Chesham - Zone 1 etc) I believe you get charged off-peak rates -- that good enough?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 22:18:51 GMT
You take a hit for 2 reasons Running via the local lines - adds on 5 minutes The other reason is that your train gets regulated by around 7 minutes at various locations including 2 minutes stand time at Ricky and 3 minutes at C&L This is largely beacuse you can't get up the branch as a train is coming off it Ok thanks for the reply. It does seem Chesham is going to take the Brunt of these changes. Getting back to your earlier point about the Peak times , does this mean i shouldn't have to pay the peak time Tariff going back up North as this is an off Peak service ..... I wish. ;D Not every train gets hit in this way, in fact it looks like your train is the worst of the day! |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 1, 2011 22:26:40 GMT
Well if you go into London in the evening peak (i.e. Chesham - Zone 1 etc) I believe you get charged off-peak rates -- that good enough? It depends what you call Peak. The present 1800 and 1830 services in to zone 1 are Full fare. From the 11th of December these services will be a lot slower "as per Off Peak" no doubt charged at Peak service . |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 1, 2011 23:13:47 GMT
However looking at reversing Pics at Ruislip if the Central were to go to Uxbridge I think a new siding or crossover at Ruislip would be needed. So if the Central goes to Uxbridge forget about the reversing siding at Ruislip as it is now I think. If West Ruislip is closed or has a much reduced service people will want to connect been the Central Line and Chiltern at South Ruislip instead. But the recent modification at Northolt Junction means that most down Chiltern services now use the through road at South Ruislip, which has no platform. How will that work? |
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Post by metrider on Dec 2, 2011 7:13:02 GMT
Well if you go into London in the evening peak (i.e. Chesham - Zone 1 etc) I believe you get charged off-peak rates -- that good enough? It depends what you call Peak. The present 1800 and 1830 services in to zone 1 are Full fare. .... If your normal journey is the one that you described earlier, the it will be full fare as it goes through Z1 and out the other side. Only journeys that terminate in zone one and start outside it, get charged as off peak within the evening peak period. Working in Harrow and living in Z1 means that I benefit from this discount every day. And my trains will be slower from the 11th   |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 10:17:15 GMT
It depends what you call Peak. The present 1800 and 1830 services in to zone 1 are Full fare. .... If your normal journey is the one that you described earlier, the it will be full fare as it goes through Z1 and out the other side. Only journeys that terminate in zone one and start outside it, get charged as off peak within the evening peak period. Working in Harrow and living in Z1 means that I benefit from this discount every day. And my trains will be slower from the 11th Maybe not 'quite' as slow depending on which train you catch As I alluded to on page 5, there are half a dozen or so trains that are routed via the fast between WPK & HOH in the contra peak, albeit with a WPK stop - pick the right train and you can minimise your lost time to some extent! |
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Post by metrider on Dec 2, 2011 19:22:11 GMT
... And my trains will be slower from the 11th Maybe not 'quite' as slow depending on which train you catch As I alluded to on page 5, there are half a dozen or so trains that are routed via the fast between WPK & HOH in the contra peak, albeit with a WPK stop - pick the right train and you can minimise your lost time to some extent! first, thanks for trying to be helpful. If the journey planner is to be believed, then around my eve peak journey, there is no significant advantage in any particular train. It looks like I'll be hit by 4 minutes, as frequently (just!) catch the fast Baker street (473). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 21:54:53 GMT
Maybe not 'quite' as slow depending on which train you catch As I alluded to on page 5, there are half a dozen or so trains that are routed via the fast between WPK & HOH in the contra peak, albeit with a WPK stop - pick the right train and you can minimise your lost time to some extent! first, thanks for trying to be helpful. If the journey planner is to be believed, then around my eve peak journey, there is no significant advantage in any particular train. It looks like I'll be hit by 4 minutes, as frequently (just!) catch the fast Baker street (473). Indeed, you are a little early for the contra peak fast line workings Your train 473 is 17.35 HOH, the first fast line offering in your direction from the new WTT is 1805 ! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 1:06:23 GMT
The present train 473 departs CM at 1657 fast and arrives at Baker St at 1754
In the new timetable train 402 departs CM at 1655 calling at all stations and arrives at Baker St at 1754!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by metrider on Dec 3, 2011 7:27:43 GMT
The present train 473 departs CM at 1657 fast and arrives at Baker St at 1754 In the new timetable train 402 departs CM at 1655 calling at all stations and arrives at Baker St at 1754!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmm....... Any stand time at Harrow? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 8:58:53 GMT
The present train 473 departs CM at 1657 fast and arrives at Baker St at 1754 In the new timetable train 402 departs CM at 1655 calling at all stations and arrives at Baker St at 1754!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmm....... Any stand time at Harrow? 1/2 minute departs at 1733. There are only 6 SB fast trains from Harrow in the evening betwwen 1805 and 1911. The last 2 at 1852 and 1911 booked from Plat 5 with the stopping service from Pfm 6. |
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Dec 5, 2011 17:24:25 GMT
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Post by redsetter on Dec 5, 2011 21:33:48 GMT
this timetable does not give the times clearly expected at the additional stations. although the map shows the change.confusing.
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Post by graeme186 on Dec 5, 2011 21:52:00 GMT
The Watford Branch equivalent is interesting in that although the line map on the front cover shows all stations Watford to North Harrow as it has with previous editions, there are no times (not even first/last) for stations Moor Park to North Harrow. For the SB, departures to Baker Street and Aldgate are separately shown from Watford and Croxley. For the NB, a summary timetable is included but only listing Aldgate, King's Cross, Baker Street, Wembley Park, Harrow, Moor Park, Croxley and Watford in the left hand station bank. Access facilities are, however, detailed for all stations between Watford and North Harrow. |
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Post by graeme186 on Dec 8, 2011 22:15:10 GMT
I guess tomorrow evening's peak will be the last time to experience 'A' Stock passenger trains passing through Wembley Park Pfm 1 non-stop at 50mph.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 23:50:55 GMT
I guess tomorrow evening's peak will be the last time to experience 'A' Stock passenger trains passing through Wembley Park Pfm 1 non-stop at 50mph. Last train is the 1802 ex Aldgate (Watford S/F) Train 411. (1822 BST 1829 FRD) booked past Wembley Park at 18/35. |
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metman
Global Moderator
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Post by metman on Dec 9, 2011 0:08:11 GMT
A historic moment!
I picked up the 'tube' guide from Northwood an hour ago and have to agree they are very poor in their information. It's almost as if TfL don't want people to know what the changes are - they have to work it out for themselves. Not impressed. All trains stop at Wembley! We'll have the damn Jubilee passengers to put up with!
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