Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 11:56:41 GMT
Nothing is beyond restoration given the determination, expertise and resources. There are plenty of examples, road, rail and otherwise, that have been brought "back from the dead", but it is knowing where to draw the line between an achievable end result, or one which could ultimately fail as costs start to mount. Provided the restoration object is relatively complete with no importantly major components missing, that is a head start. In the case of a tube vehicle that will not have to work for it's living, some components, if missing, will not be required if they are only needed to make the vehicle operational. Major items such as doors (different between manufacturers), bogies, wheel sets, etc, are a different matter if they are to be removed before disposal, and will make the project impossible. It all depends on how much more component recovery is scheduled for the vehicles remaining at Acton. Even if they are not further required for parts removal, there is still the possible problem of asbestos, which may prevent LUL by law from dealing with a group of potential purchasers if there is no provision to deal with it - an extremely costly excercise. Everything at the moment depends on the response from LUL - watch this space.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 12:12:10 GMT
Have you contated Eastleigh to ensure that they don't cut them on arrival? They're pretty efficient!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 13:34:25 GMT
I'm hoping, if at all possible, to arrange something before any more cars are despatched to Eastleigh. I guess the two Dm's already there are pretty well dismembered by now.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Nov 28, 2011 19:19:10 GMT
Things are very rarely beyond redemption. My BEA coach MLL721 is one of them, set fire to in 1972, back on the road 1978, and subsequently run for a few years before falling into general disrepair and awaiting further restoration. Witness the IoW 4-wheel coaches, rescued from being holiday chalets for many decades, then rebuilt..
Like I said in my earlier thread, there's a lot of covered secure accommodation available in my area that could easily house such vehicles.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Nov 28, 2011 19:30:56 GMT
I'd stump up the scrap-value for a Standard DM if there was a (paid-for) place to put it,and a realistic proposal for restoration.
PM me if you want to discuss.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Nov 28, 2011 19:31:09 GMT
This beggs the question did LUL actively seek other options to scraping, and if not why not?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 20:15:58 GMT
I have been informed by a contact that the Personel carrier and one of the two Pilot cars are to be despatched shortly for scrapping. This
I believe leaves one Pilot DM and the ex IOW trailer, and presumably they will soon follow the same path. The LUL / Tfl website does not give any sort of contact details, and the advice from a general enquiry is to contact the Museum, who in turn advise that LUL are the owners.
Unless anyone out there knows of a firm contact within LUL, it would appear that the fate of the last few Standard stock cars is sealed. At least there are the four cars within the Works, and with the amount of spares and recovered components being assembled there is hope that work will soon start, something I hope to be involved in.
Having said that, it is still extremely frustrating that despite serious efforts to secure even one of the "surplus" cars, it will all probably come to nothing.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 1, 2011 0:10:48 GMT
Well the PC is unique and has had 2 cars of spares; its also the only car that exists with 2 powered end doors, which in itself is an important development. Not to mention the unique seating layout. It seems as though LTM/LUL are just cherry-picking what they think might seem historical, rather than what is :-<
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 9:36:10 GMT
I guess LTM & LUL have to select what they consider important and worth saving, given the space and resources available. You are right about the PC, being the last of a unique design - it is worth saving, but perhaps it's condition was such that it was not a viable proposition, at least to a Museum with plenty of other projects to consider and fund. On the other hand a group or society would be far better placed to concentrate it's efforts on just one or two cars, but there seems to be little prospect of a preservation project outside the LTM getting off the ground, given that is difficult to contact someone with whom to discuss and negociate such a purchase. With only two cars remaining, is it worth a last ditch attempt before it's too late?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 2, 2011 12:22:05 GMT
Its always worth it; even talking to Eastleigh might be worthwhile, as they'll know their contact in LUL.
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Post by miff on Dec 2, 2011 21:30:06 GMT
Here is a video of the IOW cars passing through St. James's Park and being shunted at Acton in 1991:
Did BR donate these to LUL or did they buy this train? It would be interesting to know what the preservation plan was at that time (no criticism implied - I'm old enough to understand sometimes things just don't work out as planned).
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 2, 2011 21:42:31 GMT
I'd forgotten that some of the cars were repainted in UndergrounD livery. It appears that they were already suffering from corrosion according to some comments, I thought it was just muck being dislodged from the underneath. Is it the UndergrounD liveried cars that remain?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 2, 2011 22:14:18 GMT
Theres one CL 1923 car that remains outside thats in red/cream, the 1925 control trailer is inside repained into some sort of brown (red oxide?). The 1931 trailer is in yellow, as are the other two pilot motors. The other formerly NSE 1923 trailer is inside, along with two pilot motors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 10:45:13 GMT
Having been sent round in circles with the last contact with LUL/LTM, I have sent another request for info to LUL, adding that as they they are apparently the owners of the remaining cars, they hold the requested information. We can assume the four cars within the Depot Museum are safe, having been earmarked for the Heritage project. Of the four outside the works, one Pilot DM and the 1931 trailer (both yellow) have been assigned for scrapping, and already "signed off".
That leaves the ex IOW trailer and one Pilot DM, and it is quite probable that the plan is to despatch them for scrapping too. (They seem to be going in pairs). If any sort of rescue is to be attempted, it will have to be one of these two, and at a price equal to, or better than that offered by Eastleigh, if indeed that is where they are headed. Little time seems to be available to arrange the finance, transport and storage, but it's worth a go.
As for the plan for the five cars returned by NSE to LUL 20 odd years ago, I have no solid information. They were displayed at the Morden Depot open day, and was why one or two were repainted red and cream by Ryde works. Whether they were ultimately intended for restoration, or only as a source of spare parts is unknown, but corrosion in the frames may well have influenced any plan.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Dec 3, 2011 11:18:51 GMT
23stock said "Having been sent round in circles with LUL/LTM,....."
I didn't think it was possible for them to do this any more??
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 18, 2011 19:45:33 GMT
Course it is as long as they get the right mix of apathy, ignorance, beurocracy and enforced silence! Which is apparently exactly what they've achieved...
My money is that any reply you get, 23sock, will not be worth the paper it is written on.
One wonders what will happen when ann unforseen critical problem with the underframe of one of the 5 cars owned by LTM will cause the whole project to be scuppered. Then everyone will tut and say, 'what a shame we got rid of those cars only a few years ago'. Then nothing will happen.
Its really a scandal this isn't bigger news. Carriages ~85 years old, sesquicentennial of the world oldest Metro less then 2 years away.... World class indeed.
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 18, 2011 22:36:48 GMT
Photographs of the power cars have just been shown on another thread. It is pretty obvious that they are/were in a bad condition with serious rust around the cab area. Having said that they must have been retained with preservation in mind so why have they been left for years in the open to rot?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 12:21:10 GMT
Hey,
Any news on the Standard Stock? I really want to see some coaches restored. I live on the IOW and feel the stock was a massive part of the Islands transport history, as well as of course being the rolling stock that made the underground what it is today.
Ian
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Jul 10, 2012 17:32:11 GMT
There is a four car train in the depot museum at Acton. It consists of a 1931 motor, 1923 trailer, 1925 control trailer (acting as a trailer) and finally a 1927 motor. The trailers were from the IoW and the two motor cars were ex pilot cars. It is not own if the train will ever run again. It may take a lot of money to get them going. The Q stock of similar vintage is more likely to run but there is a lot of work to do!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 16:21:03 GMT
I have been away for a week, but in case this hasn't been posted already somewhere or other -
The last two (rusting) cars of Standard Stock from the ill-fated Heritage Train Project have left Acton Works, along with the ERU's two 1962 Stock cars.
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Aug 12, 2012 12:07:08 GMT
Were these cars the old PC 1931 trailers or spare 1923 trailers from the IoW?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 12:14:02 GMT
The old (1931) PCs were rid of some time ago.
These were 44 (7281) in red/cream livery (or what remained of it!) and Pilot Motor L130.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Aug 12, 2012 15:45:06 GMT
Yes, having searched flickr, these have found their way into Eastleigh works
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Aug 12, 2012 16:01:25 GMT
Do the Standard stock motor cars have the same compressors/motors as the Q stock?
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 12, 2012 19:02:15 GMT
Don't forget that any cars that operated on the Island will have serious salt water corrosion problems from running up and down the pier.
Restoration would have been a major project.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 12, 2012 19:10:15 GMT
A couple of years ago I visited the IOW and, in passing, knocked on the door of the depot. I was kindly invited to speak to a few of the maintenance staff and they voiced that the salt water was often the least of their issues and didn't cause many corrosion issues to the stock (now 38ts).
In fact the worst of the issues was caused by rainwater causing corrosion underneath the doorways to the 38ts.
I know that 20+ years have passed since the Standard Stock were withdrawn... however would the Standard stock be any different given that they are too, were contructed of steel...
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Aug 13, 2012 2:27:28 GMT
So out of 13 vintage carriages that arrived mostly in working order, on the eve of the sesquicentennial, how many now remain; 5?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 9:25:05 GMT
Spot on - sad, eh?  The five are at LTM (The Depot) Acton and are: 1923 Cammell Laird Trailer 846 / 7296 / S49 1925 MCCW Control Trailer 1789 / 5279 / S27 1927 MCCW DM 297 / 3327 - ex Science Museum 1927 MCCW DM 320 / 3370 / L134 1934 MCCW DM 3693 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 2:27:50 GMT
So I take it 23stock did not succeed then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 8:24:21 GMT
What do you mean by 'succeed' for the 1923 Stock. There is a 1923 trailer in LTM Acton - 846 / 7296 / S49. The other one that was in Acton Works ( 831 / 7281 / S44) has gone to Eastleigh.
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