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Post by br7mt on Sept 7, 2011 19:54:07 GMT
I understand that the 38TS is moving to Ruislip on Friday.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 7, 2011 20:33:44 GMT
The BSK mentioned above may well be part of the TC set as the BSK and FK vehicles were all converted loco-hauled stock. RM Web gives the original number for the TBSK in TC set 412 as 34970, which became 70823 after conversion. All the BSKs used for the original Bournemouth fleet in 1967 were taken from the range 34957-98. BSK 35011 was a departmental runner (977588) before its present incarnation. It never worked in an EMU formation in BR service. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 7, 2011 20:35:06 GMT
Sarah used to be push pull enabled as this great video shows.... Of course over time these bits of equipment and reliability issues may mean these videos are unique! |
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Post by andypurk on Sept 7, 2011 21:03:33 GMT
Sarah used to be push pull enabled as this great video shows.... Of course over time these bits of equipment and reliability issues may mean these videos are unique! I don't think Sarah was ever push-pull fitted. On that trip there was a driver both in Sarah and in the TC cab. When Sarah was propelling, power was applied by the driver in Sarah at the rear, with radio communication from the driver in the TC cab. The only 'controls' used in the TC were for the brakes. I have no idea why this type of operation can't still be used, unless the brake control equipment in the TC cab no longer works. |
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Post by metrailway on Sept 7, 2011 21:17:09 GMT
Sarah used to be push pull enabled as this great video shows.... Of course over time these bits of equipment and reliability issues may mean these videos are unique! I'm surprised that the 4TC managed to fit through the narrow tunnels to reach Baker St. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 21:38:06 GMT
This film is sixteen years old and I suspect that Shed’s, Andy's and Metman's posts have answered the outstanding question; namely that the passage of time and maintenance issues have taken their toll on the push pull capability.
Off topic but very significant, however, is the point at 30mins 35secs into the clip where a maintenance guy is working while straddling the centre rail – at over 400v DC this is incredibly dangerous. When I can get round to it I will raise a separate thread on this subject.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 21:39:57 GMT
Off topic but very significant, however, is the point at 30mins 35secs into the clip where a maintenance guy is working while straddling the centre rail – at over 400v DC this is incredibly dangerous. When I can get round to it I will raise a separate thread on this subject. -210v DC referenced to ground at the power substation by resistors, nominal. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 22:05:32 GMT
Charlie, thanks for the correction, I got my rails muddled up. I maintain my point, however; if you fall across a 210V DC potential with a current capability of 1000's of amps you will not get up quickly.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 7, 2011 22:34:46 GMT
I'm surprised that the 4TC managed to fit through the narrow tunnels to reach Baker St. They're not that narrow - they do say that A-stock has been seen at Baker Street, and that's 5" wider than the BR Mk1 profile! |
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Post by metrailway on Sept 7, 2011 22:36:53 GMT
I'm surprised that the 4TC managed to fit through the narrow tunnels to reach Baker St. They're not that narrow - they do say that A-stock has been seen at Baker Street, and that's 5" wider than the BR Mk1 profile! True but isn't the BR Mk1 profile much longer than the A Stock profile? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 7, 2011 22:43:30 GMT
It is longer but the overhang on the curves cannot be that tight. The Met Pulmans used to fit and they were long.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 7, 2011 23:30:33 GMT
A Stock are 16.1m long, Pullmans were over 17m but the the cars on the 4TC are 19.7m long.
I don't know if it's right but I heard that some Met steam locos were banned south of Finchley Road as they were too large for the tunnels?
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Post by astock5000 on Sept 8, 2011 0:06:14 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 8, 2011 6:56:14 GMT
A Stock are 16.1m long, Pullmans were over 17m but the the cars on the 4TC are 19.7m long. I don't know if it's right but I heard that some Met steam locos were banned south of Finchley Road as they were too large for the tunnels? Some of the larger ones were yes. These included the K class locos that were also banned from other parts of the NR system and hence did not last too long. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 20:50:48 GMT
Sarah used to be push pull enabled as this great video shows.... Of course over time these bits of equipment and reliability issues may mean these videos are unique! I don't think Sarah was ever push-pull fitted. On that trip there was a driver both in Sarah and in the TC cab. When Sarah was propelling, power was applied by the driver in Sarah at the rear, with radio communication from the driver in the TC cab. The only 'controls' used in the TC were for the brakes. I have no idea why this type of operation can't still be used, unless the brake control equipment in the TC cab no longer works. This is correct, SS never had push pull fitted, the operation in that video clip was as you describe above There are reasons why it cannot be operated as per above any longer ( I have a an idea or two but know a man to ask), one that I touched upon before is most certainly the insurance policy of a 2nd loco in case of failure if normal tube stock fails there are usually other motor vehicles in the consist to soldier on to a convenient point to put the train away or get it off the running lines if this fails another train of similar stock could potentially assist if sarah siddons (with no EE1 friend) puts a leg out of bed on the Met fast with an A stock in front and a 165 behind, as capn fraser would say ... we're doooooooooooomed! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 8, 2011 21:03:43 GMT
if sarah siddons puts a leg out of bed ...... that's one thing she can't do, unless someone is proposing to converted her to a diesel! (the term signifies a piston or con-rod punching its way out of the engine casing, a malfunction best observed from a long way away) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 21:10:58 GMT
if sarah siddons puts a leg out of bed ...... that's one thing she can't do, unless someone is proposing to converted her to a diesel! (the term signifies a piston or con-rod punching its way out of the engine casing, a malfunction best observed from a long way away) oh do humour me norbitonflyer - initially a term largely applied to Deltics on the ECML, but for me I apply it liberally to anything that goes pop on the railway perhaps I should have used the term 'brown middle' for Sarah as we used to apply to 'roarers' that had put their AC legs very much out of bed in the mid to late 80's! after all - i could have used the term 'gone tech' which I'm sometimes picked up on ! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 8, 2011 22:00:54 GMT
I have only seen the term applied to other I.C engines, (including a "fifty", a Western, and motor cars) but Deltics were for some reason particularly prone to do it (they did, of course, have rather a lot of "legs" (72 in fact) to keep under control.
If the term is now spreading to embrace other types of failure, that's the way language evolves.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 9:24:26 GMT
I have only seen the term applied to other I.C engines, (including a "fifty", a Western, and motor cars) but Deltics were for some reason particularly prone to do it (they did, of course, have rather a lot of "legs" (72 in fact) to keep under control. If the term is now spreading to embrace other types of failure, that's the way language evolves. It's probably just me spreading the term tbh ! As for brown middle and roarers pictorial explanation in case anyone was wondering !!! www.martinbray-ukloco.com/images/class81/81018-crewee-250688.jpg |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 22:51:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2011 11:41:22 GMT
Very nice photos aliturk. The sun had gone in by the time I got there but I took a bit of video of each train.   Paul |
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Post by astock5000 on Sept 13, 2011 0:27:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 19:12:02 GMT
About BSK 35011:
When I passed Ruislip depot on the Central line on saturday (10/09) that coach in bad condition was out in the yard, so it had obviously been moved around.
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 13, 2011 20:05:59 GMT
I have no idea why this type of operation can't still be used, unless the brake control equipment in the TC cab no longer works. Back in Spring, I was travelling behind Sarah with gantshill, our conversation paused when all of a sudden we heard the distinct noise of the diseasel on the back opening up - shortly followed by an increase in speed. Later on talking to Sarah's driver it transpired that she was struggling a little on her own so the "boys at the back gave her a helping hand". |
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Post by metrailway on Sept 13, 2011 20:55:59 GMT
About BSK 35011: When I passed Ruislip depot on the Central line on saturday (10/09) that coach in bad condition was out in the yard, so it had obviously been moved around. That's a shame. There is clearly enough demand for an extra coach to be put on the end of the 'Heritage Train'. |
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