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Post by auxsetreq on Jun 28, 2011 16:53:17 GMT
History in the making. A better schematic? Yes, but it doesn't look as balanced as the classic. Still, it looks good and should be printed along with the original in my opinion...........Thumbs up from me. Paws up from Ceiling Cat........... www.london-tubemap.com/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 16:56:57 GMT
Is this going to be printed and used by TFL?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 17:15:14 GMT
An interesting effort. To my mind, the western side of the Circle line (and connecting lines) looks a bit too lop-sided - it's almost as though the north-western corner needs to be pumped-up a bit - but I like a lot of the other features of this map.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 28, 2011 17:54:07 GMT
Interesting, and I can see what they are trying to do, but there are some problems of clarity - the two Northern Line branches at Euston, the Piccy and Northern at Kings Cross, the DLR and W&C at Bank, the two DLR branches at Stratford, all appear to show possible through journeys which can't be done in real life - Angel to Goodge Street for example, or Waterloo to Shadwell (dark blue and black can be hard to distinguish, as can the teal and turquiose concoction at Bank). Earls Court could be clearer too.
What's the Heathrow Express doing there? It's not LU, it's not TfL - it's not even Oysterised! Why include that, and not things like the Northern City line?
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Post by trivran on Jun 28, 2011 19:26:18 GMT
The odd angles make it look quite disgusting to me, although the NR symbol being inside the blob is a good idea. Also, I think the colours are perfectly distinguishable (apart from bank, that could get confusing), and at Euston it shows that the lines cross but do not meet. But again, easily confused..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 19:34:35 GMT
The odd angles did give me a bit of a shock when I first looked at it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 20:57:48 GMT
I couldn't help noticing the spelling/typing error on the map though. I thought it was 'Cannon Street' not 'Canon Street'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 21:39:47 GMT
You're right! I didn't spot that!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 21:40:49 GMT
I think this map quite successfully combines worst bits of both diagrammatic and geographic maps while abandoning their best features. Typographical quality is good though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 21:41:56 GMT
There's also a 'Beacontree' ....
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Post by trivran on Jun 28, 2011 21:56:15 GMT
And 'Terminals 1, 2, c 3'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 22:02:05 GMT
Perhaps it should read 'Terminals 1, 2 & 3'.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 28, 2011 22:07:24 GMT
I notice that the double-arrow symbol donates: "interchange with network rail services" whoever they are?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 22:12:59 GMT
Finsbury Park deep level signage mistake comes to mind
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Post by ruislip on Jun 29, 2011 5:06:23 GMT
1) Why is Uxbridge considered an interchange station? 2) Why no interchange shown between White City and Wood Lane?
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 29, 2011 7:22:02 GMT
I like it, the mistakes can be corrected but the map does a very good job of lining up the Overground and Underground. It is far better than the mess which the traditional LUL map has turned into.
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Post by rogere on Jun 29, 2011 11:14:33 GMT
Looks like it is a "publicity" exercise for a design house.
In my view having a geographic River Thames, but a more diagramatic lines diagram doesn't work - especially when longer lines are truncated, as per the Metropolitan on the map.
Also, nitpicking, I see the "spiral" is still shown as a "circle"
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 29, 2011 14:10:06 GMT
Also, nitpicking, I see the "spiral" is still shown as a "circle" It goes to Hammersmith.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 15:07:21 GMT
Apart from the errors and the unfamiliarity, both of which can be resolved with time, I think the problem with this map is that it isn't quite sure what it's for, and ends up being an unsatisfactory compromise, as I think this map quite successfully combines worst bits of both diagrammatic and geographic maps while abandoning their best features. Typographical quality is good though. The purpose of H C Beck's map (or diagram - and its successors) was to give an answer to the question 'How do I use the tube to get from this tube station to that one' (where use of tube has already been decided): for this a diagram - the 'map' we know and love - is perfectly adequate. Adding other rail lines, to 'extend the tube', is no problem, as long as we're just looking to the 'extended tube' (i.e. what is on the map) to get around. The problem is when the question is 'how do I get from here to there', without the presumption that 'the (extended) tube' will be used: for this a true geographical map showing everything is really required - you can only get the answers that are on the map: if the sensible options aren't there, you only have silly ones...
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Post by Deep Level on Jun 29, 2011 21:07:33 GMT
I notice that the double-arrow symbol donates: "interchange with network rail services" whoever they are? And interchange for a Lime Green seems to show interchange for one 'Croydon Tram Link'.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 10:51:30 GMT
I think this map quite successfully combines worst bits of both diagrammatic and geographic maps while abandoning their best features. Typographical quality is good though. I agree. The topographic map is good because it shows how the network is connected in as visually comfortable way as possible. A geographic map shows the actual spatial relationships between stations. This map, while trying to remove some geographic distortion of the topographic map, they've map the map less visually comfortable, while not actually providing the full accuracy of information from a geographic map. Is a walk from Chalfont & Latimer to Amersham really going to be as easy as a walk from Euston Square to KXSP? It's a bit like the disabled blobs. At the expense of cluttering the map, they try to tell you something extra, but don't do it very well.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 14, 2011 14:15:24 GMT
I must concur with Glom and Alex F. Any map/diagram will show something, but what exactly that is will depend on how what it shows is represented. This whole geographic/topologic arguement has always been, and will always be a quagmire. Add into that the debate around what exactly should be included on the map anyway, and then the symbols and notes...
I found a link out there some time ago to a version done in the 80s that had a geographic centre (which was clearly delineated) with a topographic outer. That was suggested by another graphic designer; don't suppose anyone might have any ideas for finding it again?
Perhaps that is the answer, if something can't be both simultaneously, why not just make it purely one on parts that merit it, and the other for parts that dont?
My mate loves this new design. Me, not so much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 20:39:40 GMT
Interesting concept. Being geographically accurate has more value in the centre where the distances are shorter and knowing the actual relative positions of stations can become quite useful eg Bayswater/Queensbury. Such situation don't really apply to, say, Croxley/Ricky.
Still, I'd think it would look too weird.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 15, 2011 11:35:28 GMT
Article published by the Independent today regarding redesigning Harry Beck's LU map... A CLOSER look I quite like it, but I'm pretty sure purists won't
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 15, 2011 11:40:49 GMT
Article published by the Independent today regarding redesigning Harry Beck's LU map... A CLOSER look I quite like it, but I'm pretty sure purists won't I think that's the same map as here and there's the option to download it as a PDF as well. I quite like it too
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Aug 15, 2011 12:04:09 GMT
I like it too, a big improvement on the current offering.
I think much better for its clarity and more geographically accurate-ness and thankfully solid lines for DLR/LOROL.
My only gripe would be that the NCL needs to be included on it, but that's a personal opinion.
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 15, 2011 13:40:56 GMT
I'm not so sure about this one. The purpose of the Beck map was to simplify the map to make it easy to understand. He did this by expanding the central area and compressing the outer parts of the system. Mark Noad complains about the geographical inaccuracies on the current map forgetting that this is the very thing that contributed to its success by making the central area much larger. The main reason for the difficulty in people understanding the map is that the system has grown larger and more complicated since Frank Beck designed the original map. I think it would be better if the central area was further enlarged or the enlarged area extended but still retaining the original concept (without all the slants and odd angles).
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Post by v52gc on Aug 15, 2011 14:15:58 GMT
I think it's quite nice, a step in the right direction for incorporating the Overground and distances between lines outside the centre. But the central area around Oxford Circus and Bank are terrible. I'm also a bit of a tube map purist so when lines are touching but don't IRL use the same tracks (such as the Northern, Vic and Pic at King's X) I don't like. Maybe for cross platform interchange but otherwise keep them separate. There are also some missed opportunities with out of station interchanges such as West Ruislip to Ickenham where on the map W Ruislip is right in the middle between Ruislip and Ickenham.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 14:22:45 GMT
The comment I appreciated most in the Independant: "My Berlin transit diagram owes a lot to Beck," Spiekermann says. "It works very well for the Tube. It never pretends to work for other types of journeys. The only reason people are using it for everything else is that is appears to be so simple, hiding the whole complexity of London underneath those few lines and angles.
"Most German transport systems imitate Berlin. But they all suffer from information overload." which I think about sums it up: the problem people have with the current map/diagram is that they use it for more than it was intended for (i.e. to find their way around London, rather than just the tube). A geographically accurate map makes it hard to understand the tube; the simple diagram we have misleads over geography; Mark Noad's design is an unhappy medium, with the disadvantages of both, the advantages of neither.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 15, 2011 15:48:27 GMT
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