towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 9, 2005 21:04:19 GMT
One night when I was on at London Rd a train came out of service for smoke under car.On examination I found C wheels locked on car 3356.When they skated the train back to Stonebridge Pk they found it wasn't a burst armature or seized bearings(either axle or motor) or locked brakes,so what was locking up the wheel?
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Post by Dmitri on Aug 10, 2005 8:19:03 GMT
SAPB?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 10, 2005 18:07:17 GMT
No,it's nothing to do with brakes.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 10, 2005 20:44:54 GMT
scaffold pole or shopping trolley? ;D ;D
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 10, 2005 23:16:57 GMT
It was a piece of train equipment,but which one and how did it lock a pair of wheels?
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Post by q8 on Aug 11, 2005 6:39:20 GMT
Sounds to me a bit like a possibly twisted block? Or maybe part of the bogie frame. Was there any air blow with this defect??
Obviously something local as if it were RPA or similar both axles would have locked.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 11, 2005 19:29:05 GMT
You're getting close,it is on the bogie,but as I said in last post nothing to do with brakes.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 11, 2005 22:55:25 GMT
A posi or negi shoe?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 12, 2005 20:18:16 GMT
I don't think you're going to get it.On 67/72TS the perception head for the speedo is bolted into the top of the gearpan of either B or C motor,depending which end of the train you are,on this car the perception head had dropped off it's cable into the motor gears CRUNCH!!!
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Post by q8 on Aug 12, 2005 22:38:25 GMT
Here's a little one for you Towerman. A driver calls the car examiner for "sluggish train". The fitter does indeed find it sluggish but when he tests the sequence indicator it's says all motors working. He walks through the train (R stock) and verifies that all the motors are working but finds that when starting the number three car gives a violent jolt and some strange noises when in motion. When he cuts out the motors on that car the train speeds up. If he cuts them back in again the odd behaviour re-commences.
What's the problem?
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 12, 2005 22:48:20 GMT
Here's a little one for you Towerman. A driver calls the car examiner for "sluggish train". The fitter does indeed find it sluggish but when he tests the sequence indicator it's says all motors working. He walks through the train (R stock) and verifies that all the motors are working but finds that when starting the number three car gives a violent jolt and some strange noises when in motion. When he cuts out the motors on that car the train speeds up. If he cuts them back in again the odd behaviour re-commences. What's the problem? I reckon I know the answer to this one  Did they ever find who had wired the motor up wrongly?  |
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Post by zman on Aug 13, 2005 1:15:18 GMT
Here's a little one for you Towerman. A driver calls the car examiner for "sluggish train". The fitter does indeed find it sluggish but when he tests the sequence indicator it's says all motors working. He walks through the train (R stock) and verifies that all the motors are working but finds that when starting the number three car gives a violent jolt and some strange noises when in motion. When he cuts out the motors on that car the train speeds up. If he cuts them back in again the odd behaviour re-commences. What's the problem? I would assume that the third car's wheels are going in reverse. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 13, 2005 20:04:26 GMT
I think thats been done on the Central as well
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 13, 2005 20:24:21 GMT
I think thats been done on the Central as well It happened with a C stock as well, when it came back from refurbishment. Train was a bit sluggish, (but nothing unusual for C stock  ) Driver got to Kings X and was told there was smoke coming from the middle motor car. He cut out the motors and the train was much better. Seems that the motors on the middle unit had been wired up the wrong way round, and were working in the opposite direction to the rest of the trains motors |
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 2:10:50 GMT
zman is closest so far........ but why?? It is nothing to do with mis-wiring of motors
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 14, 2005 8:48:48 GMT
zman is closest so far........ but why?? It is nothing to do with mis-wiring of motors In that case I'd guess that there was a problem with the reversers in that car? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2005 9:12:13 GMT
Was anything else mis-wired (like the control cubicles)?
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 10:55:05 GMT
In that case I'd guess that there was a problem with the reversers in that car?
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Solidbond gets it right. It was indeed a reverser not thrown on that car. However they were rather astonished that there had been no fuses blowing or even fire given the very high temperatures and currents being generated by the fault. The reverser itelf was nearly at meltdown.
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Post by zman on Aug 14, 2005 17:11:08 GMT
In that case I'd guess that there was a problem with the reversers in that car? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Solidbond gets it right. It was indeed a reverser not thrown on that car. However they were rather astonished that there had been no fuses blowing or even fire given the very high temperatures and currents being generated by the fault. The reverser itelf was nearly at meltdown. Ok Q8, you'll have to get a little more technical with me here as, for me, there is a conflict of terminology. For me, the reverser is part of a motorman's tools that is inserted into the master controller and determines the direction of the train depending on whether the reverser is thrown backwards or forwards. What exactly is the reverser that you're talking about? |
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 19:12:05 GMT
Well I dont know what the American terminolgy is but it is the switching device below the car which determines which way round the motor poles the current flows. It's generally shown on circuit diagrams as kind of scissors thing.
There is a reversing barrel on the master controller which as you say is key operated but that will throw all under car reversers on way or the other. This is why when you first leave a termini with an old resistance controlled train you will hear THREE clicks. One is the reverser throwing and the other two are the line breakers closing
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2005 21:35:05 GMT
In the same vein as the reverser, what is the control governor, and how does reversing it after operating a TCIC change the behaviour of the train motors?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 14, 2005 22:50:07 GMT
It's a device in the forward wire that stops you getting movement unless there is sufficient train line air to make a brake application.If I remember correctly it sets at 50lb sq in and drops out at 40lb sq in.Cutting out the TCIC takes the air off the control governor so the control governor cut out switch has to be operated.Then it's double manned and OOS.By the way Q8 I thought if a reverser was in the wrong position the overloads on the car should drop out so you should only get control not power.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 14, 2005 22:52:47 GMT
In the same vein as the reverser, what is the control governor, and how does reversing it after operating a TCIC change the behaviour of the train motors? Put simply, the control governor prevents forward movement with insufficient train line air and/or the tripcock isolated. Electrically, it forms part of the 'forward wire'. Reversing it is another way of saying cut it out. This would only be done if the tripcock was isolated or it caused an electrical fault on the forward wire. Cutting it out will not affect the motors, but it will affect the drivers next move, depending on why it was done. EDIT: damm, towerman posted while I was typing. I think we've answered it though?! ;D |
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 14, 2005 23:39:28 GMT
In the same vein as the reverser, what is the control governor, and how does reversing it after operating a TCIC change the behaviour of the train motors? Put simply, the control governor prevents forward movement with insufficient train line air and/or the tripcock isolated. Electrically, it forms part of the 'forward wire'. Reversing it is another way of saying cut it out. This would only be done if the tripcock was isolated or it caused an electrical fault on the forward wire. Cutting it out will not affect the motors, but it will affect the drivers next move, depending on why it was done. EDIT: damm, towerman posted while I was typing. I think we've answered it though?! ;D Well done Colin - looks like you may be in with a chance of passing your C stock refresher Oh - and did I tell you I am nearly qualified to deliver D stock as well? ;D ;D |
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Post by q8 on Aug 15, 2005 0:25:49 GMT
Q8 I thought if a reverser was in the wrong position the overloads on the car should drop out so you should only get control not power.
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Yes that is the theory but in this case they did not and the motors were turning rear-about-face. The end result was as described plus wheels that looked similar to the photograph posted by Igelkotten elsewhere on this forum.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 15, 2005 13:37:27 GMT
Well done Colin - looks like you may be in with a chance of passing your C stock refresher Oh - and did I tell you I am nearly qualified to deliver D stock as well? ;D ;D Well at least the MA indicator lights are easier to see on a D stock !! ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2005 16:10:22 GMT
Well done Colin - looks like you may be in with a chance of passing your C stock refresher Nope. The only way he will pass his C stock refresher is if he has his balloons! ;D ;D |
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Did they ever find who had wired the motor up wrongly? 
) Driver got to Kings X and was told there was smoke coming from the middle motor car. He cut out the motors and the train was much better. Seems that the motors on the middle unit had been wired up the wrong way round, and were working in the opposite direction to the rest of the trains motors 
