metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on May 15, 2011 0:28:15 GMT
4) Totally stupid, unrealiable arrangement of Uxbridge trains running alternatively to City/Baker Street I disagree entirely. In my view, as a regular user of the Uxbridge Branch, this is by far the best feature of the proposed new service pattern as it will finally provide the off-peak Uxbridge service with some immunity to problems in the city, something the other branches of the Met have enjoyed for many years and the Uxbridge Branch has badly missed since the withdrawal of the old service pattern which you seem to have disliked. I am also now a regular Uxbridge branch user and find the idea of alternate services a potential headache for service recovery. It's a nice idea, but in times of delay what will line controllers do? I don't think the Uxbridge service is under provided, and I don't see how more trains are needed. |
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 9:00:57 GMT
Hopefully I will encompass all replies in this post - I've polished a couple of the points, as I originally posted without the timetable in front of me, and it was late evening  Uxbridge Branch: Having re-checked the documentation, it is better to desribe the service as a 7/8 minute service, with alternate trains to Baker Street/Aldgate. This gives roughly 8tph. South/East of Baker Street you have a 15 minute direct Uxbridge-Aldgate service. Amersham/Chesham: Basically a 15 minute service from Aldgate with every other train going to Amersham or Chesham. All trains call all stations, and yes, the reliability aspect particularly for Chesham trains has been looked at. There is a certain amount of padding and the pathing of the trains over Watford South Junction has been altered so that the Cheshams will be able to sit at Chalfont for a few extra minutes if the preceeding service is late off the branch. Watford and Croxley: Have been spoilt over the years with a 10 minute service. There simply aren't the passenger numbers to demand a more frequent service than Chesham. The only reason Watford got its 10 minute service was more as a by-product of running every 10 minutes on the local lines. The trains had to go somewhere and so Watford benefitted. It does mean of course that 1 cancellation causes a 30 minute gap - but this will be addressed/managed at the time. |
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 9:03:49 GMT
I disagree entirely. In my view, as a regular user of the Uxbridge Branch, this is by far the best feature of the proposed new service pattern as it will finally provide the off-peak Uxbridge service with some immunity to problems in the city, something the other branches of the Met have enjoyed for many years and the Uxbridge Branch has badly missed since the withdrawal of the old service pattern which you seem to have disliked. Immunity from the city, yes. But unfortunately, the Baker Street services are not self-contained. A typical working for 1 train will be Uxbridge > Baker Street > Watford > Baker Street > Uxbridge > Aldgate > Uxbridge. So if something should happen anywhere on more or less any of the Met, the Uxbridge branch may suffer. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 9:08:18 GMT
So, are there any plans in the long term to end the Met service to Amersham and Chesham? I don't see how Chiltern will be able to share the same tracks when CBTC is in use. Handing that line to Network Rail would seem the logical thing to do but then people from stations west of Harrow would have to double back to Harrow unless Chiltern started stopping at Moor Park.
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Post by Harsig on May 15, 2011 10:40:39 GMT
I understand that there is to be a trial operation of the new service pattern on Sunday 11th September.
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Post by redsetter on May 15, 2011 13:07:04 GMT
The Chesham branch is never going to work well with the present track layout and through service. As soon as there is a service interruption and the train is running late there are problems as has been well covered on this Forum in the past. Is the S stock fitted with selective door opening as this could be a possible answer? When there are problems run a train into the bay at Chalfont and Latimer and lock our the rear 4 coach doors - surely one of the advantages of a full width link between the coaches? If things stay as they are they are IMO the Chesham Branch will be viewed as a liability and the axe will be sharpened - We have all heard the denials of the occurring - been there done that in the past. Xerces Fobe there was an incident a few weeks back where a chesham train was held by the police as there were muggers operating in the area.this resulted in a diversion and taxis were laid on for passengers back to chesham. chesham.buckinghamshireadvertiser.co.uk/2011/04/breaking-news-arrests-made-at.htmlchesham.buckinghamshireadvertiser.co.uk/2011/04/four-teenagers-arrested-on-sus.htmlits quite rightly mentioned regarding the chesham branch,and the line coming under review at some point as to its future.there has been much speculation over the years as to its continuing for various reasons and the possibility of it being claimed as unsustainable if there are problems that persist is worrying. |
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Post by andypurk on May 15, 2011 18:15:33 GMT
So, are there any plans in the long term to end the Met service to Amersham and Chesham? I don't see how Chiltern will be able to share the same tracks when CBTC is in use. Handing that line to Network Rail would seem the logical thing to do but then people from stations west of Harrow would have to double back to Harrow unless Chiltern started stopping at Moor Park. There is no real reason why Chiltern can continue sharing the tracks after resignaling of the Met, providing that it is thought of in the planning. Lineside signals could be retained along with some form of ATP (Chiltern's trains are already fitted with an old version of ATP as well as tripcocks). The fast lines north of Harrow-on-the-Hill are not that heavily used so mixing ATO S-stock and manually driven Chiltern trains wouldn't be a big problem. |
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Post by greatkingrat on May 15, 2011 18:21:05 GMT
The original article says that the changes would "reduce the congestion in the Rayners Lane area". I don't see how as the Uxbridge service is actually increasing?
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 20:54:34 GMT
So, are there any plans in the long term to end the Met service to Amersham and Chesham? I don't see how Chiltern will be able to share the same tracks when CBTC is in use. Handing that line to Network Rail would seem the logical thing to do but then people from stations west of Harrow would have to double back to Harrow unless Chiltern started stopping at Moor Park. There is no suggestion at all that Chiltern or LUL will surrender the line. The Jubilee has TBTC into and out of Neasden depot. It won't stop the Met running into and out of there. Even when the Met has TBTC and the Picc doesn't, it won't stop the Picc running Uxbridge to Rayners Lane. Shall I go on... End of the day, an advance on one line will not be to the detriment of another. |
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 20:56:41 GMT
I understand that there is to be a trial operation of the new service pattern on Sunday 11th September. Indeed, and maybe one other but it's proving very difficult to fit one in, plus a whole stack of internal re-education of some staff to prioritise services differently [at Watford South Junction] to what they had always been taught. |
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 21:00:47 GMT
there was an incident a few weeks back where a chesham train was held by the police as there were muggers operating in the area.this resulted in a diversion and taxis were laid on for passengers back to chesham. Regrettably, we do have incidents where trains are held awaiting police presence, but those (external) incidents have very little (in fact nothing) to do with how the service pattern is planned. All delays, however caused, will mean knock-on effects to the bigger picture of the service. The service is never planned around things going wrong. When such events happen, it is up to myself and my colleagues to limit the effect such events have on the service as much as we can. |
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Post by citysig on May 15, 2011 21:03:12 GMT
The original article says that the changes would "reduce the congestion in the Rayners Lane area". I don't see how as the Uxbridge service is actually increasing? In conjunction with tweaks to the Piccadilly Line timetable, certain pinch points within the timetable will be addressed, without affecting the overall service. Put simply, pathing has been eased a little between the 2 services, and a certain amount of padding applied ;D |
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Post by cowmos on May 17, 2011 10:09:11 GMT
Can someone please confirm that there will still be a Fast Chesham service during peak times (whether the train is travelling from Chesham or towards).
Many thanks
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 10:20:40 GMT
The original article says that the changes would "reduce the congestion in the Rayners Lane area". I don't see how as the Uxbridge service is actually increasing? In conjunction with tweaks to the Piccadilly Line timetable, certain pinch points within the timetable will be addressed, without affecting the overall service. Put simply, pathing has been eased a little between the 2 services, and a certain amount of padding applied ;D Good to hear! Thanks  |
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Post by citysig on May 17, 2011 13:12:13 GMT
Can someone please confirm that there will still be a Fast Chesham service during peak times (whether the train is travelling from Chesham or towards). Many thanks Yes there will still be fast services during the peaks for Amersham and Chesham customers. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 17, 2011 14:23:37 GMT
Any semi-fasts at any time of the day?
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Post by ruislip on May 17, 2011 16:48:01 GMT
I guess the introduction of local Amersham/Chesham services is another step in making the Met just another Underground line--taking away part of its uniqueness.  |
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Post by citysig on May 17, 2011 22:07:08 GMT
Any semi-fasts at any time of the day? No. The pattern will be all-stations trains, except a handful of peak-hour trains to/from Amersham and Chesham, and these will be "fast" trains. |
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Post by citysig on May 17, 2011 22:10:28 GMT
I guess the introduction of local Amersham/Chesham services is another step in making the Met just another Underground line--taking away part of its uniqueness. As I hinted at earlier, this is the next step in bringing a couple of influential Customer Focus Groups their wishes. Chesham always wanted a through service, and their wish was granted last December. Now a couple of other groups located on the local lines between Harrow and Moor Park have demanded better frequency and reliability of services. This timetable will give them that - hopefully not at the cost of the whole line. Unfortunately, the Met is just another underground line. Yes it is steeped in history and tradition, and no it will never be like one of the tube lines, but it has to earn its keep and has to satisfy as many of the travelling (fare-paying) public as it can. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 17, 2011 23:56:24 GMT
Presumably one of the upsides is that if everything runs all stations but one is running late, theres more scope for it to make time by diverting it over the fast tracks? Assuming it doesn't cause too bad a gap...
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vato
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Post by vato on May 18, 2011 0:31:01 GMT
No. The pattern will be all-stations trains, except a handful of peak-hour trains to/from Amersham and Chesham, and these will be "fast" trains. Any indication if the "handful" is just the 2 peak hour trains the left Aldgate before most folk could get there after normal end of office hours, or something a little more useful? I'm hoping the current timetable isn't only a temporary sop, but I'm not particularly hopeful. |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on May 18, 2011 9:17:00 GMT
To all those who want a timetable to meet their needs, you must form yourself into an influential Customer Focus Group and lobby the Met Line General Manager to get your wishes !
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 10:53:03 GMT
Will the changes mean no more northbound fast Amershams running through platform 1 at Harrow, I wonder .... ?
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Post by setttt on May 18, 2011 11:00:38 GMT
Will the changes mean no more northbound fast Amershams running through platform 1 at Harrow, I wonder .... ? I would be surprised if these didn't still happen from time to time, at least as long as we have climate-sensitive points at Harrow North Junction! |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 12:52:27 GMT
So no more semi-fast Watford services in the peaks then? As for the handful of fast Amersham services, maybe it won't be long before they decide to abandon them so as to keep a uniform service. It wouldn't be quite so bad if Chiltern would stop at Moor Park so anyone from Watford could change there onto a fast service. I doubt Chiltern will though and even if they wanted to the dft could decide to not allow it.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on May 18, 2011 12:58:18 GMT
This is a joke, which passenger focus group wanted a better frequency between Moor Park and Harrow. From my personal experience as a local, in the slack hours 6tph is plenty! The peaks can be a little quiet, but that will improve with ATO.
Chiltern trains will quickly find themselves being very very busy....
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 13:13:18 GMT
Chiltern trains will quickly find themselves being very very busy.... But that's no good if you are at Moor Park as they won't stop there. |
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Post by knap on May 18, 2011 13:45:41 GMT
Will there be any public consultation on these changes?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on May 18, 2011 16:24:52 GMT
I guess the introduction of local Amersham/Chesham services is another step in making the Met just another Underground line--taking away part of its uniqueness. As I hinted at earlier, this is the next step in bringing a couple of influential Customer Focus Groups their wishes. Chesham always wanted a through service, and their wish was granted last December. Now a couple of other groups located on the local lines between Harrow and Moor Park have demanded better frequency and reliability of services. This timetable will give them that - hopefully not at the cost of the whole line. I can't help but be slightly cynical about this .. 6tph off-peak between Harrow and Moor Park is more than adequate for the passenger traffic. Watford trains are so lightly loaded north of Harrow that it's very easy to get an entire car to one's self, especially going northbound. It's a bit of a coincidence that the Watford service is going down from 6tph to 4tph, with the Amersham / Chesham services being used to cover this downgrade. |
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Post by redsetter on May 18, 2011 16:29:02 GMT
So no more semi-fast Watford services in the peaks then? As for the handful of fast Amersham services, maybe it won't be long before they decide to abandon them so as to keep a uniform service. It wouldn't be quite so bad if Chiltern would stop at Moor Park so anyone from Watford could change there onto a fast service. I doubt Chiltern will though and even if they wanted to the dft could decide to not allow it. your comments might not be far wrong. what appears to be happening is the concentration within the greater london boundaries,the new stock in no way comparable to the former in its terms of layout or suitability for the longer distance traveller in terms of seating and visual aspect of some seats.the new services will add the drag factor for these amersham/chesham journeys which is almost unheard of not to be a fast service.these appear to be radical changes. |
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