tube changes add to chesham journey times

Both Fast to Local crossovers at Watford South Junction are 25mph according to the signalling book wiring.

It isn't fair to compare the Met to the Chiltern Main Line. The Met is an outer-surburban commuter line, whilst the Chiltern Main Line is now in my opinion an InterCity railway. Inevitably speeds will be higher on an IC line.



That news will disappoint Chiltern and Network Rail. The West Midlands & Chilterns RUS published in May says that Chiltern Railways and LUL, have commenced consideration of what opportunities exist to exploit incremental service mix and journey time improvements following the introduction of the December 2012 timetable

If talks have broken down, it seems passengers on the 'Aylesbury Corridor' will have to settle for low speeds until at least resignalling comes in 2017(?). TfL have said that their preferred option for improving speeds etc is by timetabling changes and if that doesn't happen it would be very disappointing.

Chiltern have pretty much been slagging off LUL publicly for what is coming up to 10 years now, and looks like they will continue to do so for several years to come. I can't blame them.

When ATP was being rolled out on the Chiltern Lines during the BR days, LUL 'agreed' to allow it to be installed on the Met. However, LUL never arranged the possesions required, and the Chiltern management were forced to fit tripcocks on the 165s.

When BR was privatised, this same BR Chiltern Lines management, won the franchise as Chiltern Railways, and has seen speeds on the Met drop to the lowest in 50 years, cancelling out the improvements they have funded north of Amersham.

I remember when I opened my new Chiltern timetable to find out my commute to Aylesbury had increased by 5 minutes with the non-stop Harrow - Ricky time increasing from 7 minutes to 13 minutes! They had to retime my train so that when commuters arrived at Aylesbury, they had enough time to reach work on time. Chiltern and the passenger have been repeatedly been told that millions is being spent on the Met yet the non-stop Chiltern journey still takes 11 minutes.



Epping to Holborn is 18 miles and 56 chains.
Since most commuters in the Chiltern area go into the city, it would be fairer to compare the Amersham - Moorgate distance. This distance is 27 miles and 14 chains. Amersham - Baker St is 23 miles and 64 chains.

The time it takes to travel between Epping and Holborn is about 47 minutes, the same as a Fast Amersham - Baker St. At least Epping has a 6 minute frequency to the city at morning peak, unlike Amersham or Chesham.

The speed limits are already 60mph on the fasts and north of Ricky for Chiltern! It is not much of an improvement if it stays at 60mph!

40+ years ago the locals were 60mph, and the fasts 70mph, with the section between Ricky and Chalfont rated 60mph, and Chalfont to Missenden at 70mph. In those days, the Great Central services ran faster than these speeds as the locos didn't have speedos.

The S Stock top speed is 62mph but the A Stock was designed for 70mph! Sure the S stock will be faster than the A Stock has been in the past 10 years, but will be slower than services 20, 30, 40 years ago. LUL will advertise this as an improvement when it is anything but!

I don't doubt there will be an improvement to journey times on the Met for Dec 12, but I don't think this will be to any earth shattering degree, maybe something like a minute or so saved between Harrow and Amersham?

Also bear in mind there are still only 9 'S' stocks in service and these are likely to be driven fairly conservatively as T/OP's familiarise themselves with their new kit

This means no data of any real value will be available for the Dec 12 timetable, so any time savings brought about by 'S' stock are unlikely to be seen until May or Dec 13

so when this new timetable in dec 11 comes into place, are the amershams running all stations to harrow and then non stopping to wembley? if i am wrong could someone please present the off peak pattern for me?

Probably because the Central doesn't have a dedicated fast line! ;D

Those of us in Watford have been degraded to a 15 minute service so the Pinner lot can get their 7.5 minute service!

There are 9 booked stocks (1 used twice) and the occasional extra one when Train Operator availability allows. As you are aware, there are still Train Operators who are getting fully to grips with the new stock and as such, may drive in a slightly different manner than if they were in an A-stock.

I know it's another denial, but put it this way: The discussions for 2013s timetables are in full swing, and the plans do include the Chesham service. So until then at least, the Chesham branch remains very much open for business

Having been past today, at both Watford North and Watford South Junctions, the mainline speed is now 50mph (no longer 60). The Watford North curve is 20mph and the Fast - Local at Watford South is 25mph, as you said. So the current penalty in crossing over is probably not much different to the old layout at the here.

Yep, Watford speeds increased from 20 to 30mph after the replacement



The SB fast become 60mph after Moor Park. IIRC the NB fast becomes 50mph from 60mph just south of the bridge over the Grand Union Canal/ River Colne

As a passenger on the " Top end of the Met " i can tell you a lot of people moved out to Amersham and Chesham based on the fact there was a Fast service into London. So lucky no. Maybe you should take the time to go down to Harrow , Hmmm lets say about 1800 Peak time N/B. Lets see how far you get , while you see endless Uxbridge and in the case of Watford empty trains Depart N/B.


ETA : Don't get me wrong . I'm Very pleased we have a service from Chesham, but please please TFL don't keep telling us " We are improving the Met to give you a Faster Service " . It just winds up your Client Base. ;D

So by that merit the Piccadilly Line should call at Ravenscourt Park, Stamford Brook, Turnham Green and Chiswick Park?

The District Line (for the first three at least) provides a decent service as it is. It's quite a different scenario - not least to mention there isn't really the capacity to thrust the Piccadilly Line's full service down that way as well!

Cooperman, you seem to have get again jumped my point. The top end of the Met is no more special than anywhere else on the line. Whining because you have a whole seven minutes slapped on your journey time to benefit people other than you?

I might be coming across a bit grouchy but the whole attitude from the people in zones 8/9 seems to be sod everyone else, I want my fast trains!

The changes are off-peak, like I also said in my post. They are improving peak journey times and capacity with the S stock, not that you'll see all of that until the resignalling is complete and in full service.

Like I said before, there's a lot of fresh air carried on the Met in the off-peak. If you're in a rush to get somewhere, use Chiltern. Marylebone is a short couple of minutes walk away from Baker Street.