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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 4, 2015 14:10:47 GMT
does anyone know how the split will take place across the line once the extension opens, will the battersea line go to edgware and the bank line to high barnet? Or would this be a bad move as the option of both branches direct from each termini is no longer possible? Barnet - City - Morden Edgware - West End - Battersea is the only permutation that ticks all the boxes if a complete split is to happen - but it is unlikely until interchange at Camden Town is improved. The Barnet branch has to be connected to Morden depot, as the other main depot is on the Edgware branch, at Golders Green. And given the layout at Kennington, Battersea trains will only be able to go to the West End, so it is the Morden trains that would go via the City. (Sorry, Battersea bankers in the new development, but you won't get a direct service to the City, or indeed to the Eurostar terminus. Since they would have to change anyway, how long before they discover that they can get to and from the interchange at Waterloo (or Victoria) faster without going under ground, and the NLE becomes a white elephant?)
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 4, 2015 14:23:03 GMT
does anyone know how the split will take place across the line once the extension opens, will the battersea line go to edgware and the bank line to high barnet? Or would this be a bad move as the option of both branches direct from each termini is no longer possible? Barnet - City - Morden Edgware - West End - Battersea is the only permutation that ticks all the boxes if a complete split is to happen - but it is unlikely until interchange at Camden Town is improved. The Barnet branch has to be connected to Morden depot, as the other main depot is on the Edgware branch, at Golders Green. And given the layout at Kennington, Battersea trains will only be able to go to the West End, so it is the Morden trains that would go via the City. (Sorry, Battersea bankers in the new development, but you won't get a direct service to the City, or indeed to the Eurostar terminus. Since they would have to change anyway, how long before they discover that they can get to and from the interchange at Waterloo (or Victoria) faster without going under ground, and the NLE becomes a white elephant?) The little darlings will have to learn "Stay on the train 'til Waterloo, change for Canary Wharf. If you want the City, there's a nice cross platform connection at Kennington." As you've said, the Battersea extension is coming off of the Kennington loop which is only used by 'via Charing +' trains. When this project commences I presume the loop will be out of use for some time? If they intend reversing trains via the dead end siding, the timetable will have to be looked at as any shunt will conflict with north bound Bank trains.
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Post by melikepie on Dec 18, 2015 19:14:55 GMT
Here is the latest newsletter
Northern line extension Issue 5 • December 2015 Mayor of London visits NLE Battersea site Mayor Boris Johnson MP visited the Battersea site in November to mark the launch of major works on the Northern line extension. The event focused on the starting up of the conveyor that will transport excavated material (or ‘spoil’) from the site out to the jetty. Around 600,000 tonnes of spoil over the course of the project will then travel by barge down the River Thames to Tilbury in Essex where it will be used to create arable farmland. After having a site safety induction and getting into his protective equipment, the Mayor met with members of the project team before visiting the viewing platform on the roof of the site offices for a briefing of the current construction activities. He then made his way onto the site to meet with 10 of our apprentices and local employees before heading to the conveyor for media interviews. On the Mayor’s signal, the specially designed 300m-long belt whirred into action. The Mayor was accompanied by directors from TfL, London Underground, Ferrovial Agroman UK & Ireland and Laing O’Rourke, Leader of Wandsworth Council Councillor Ravi Govindia and the CEO of Battersea Power Station Development Company Rob Tincknell as well as members of the NLE project team and members of the press. On Monday 30 November Jane Ellison MP for Battersea visited the Battersea site with Wandsworth Councillor Jonathan Cook and Deputy Economic Development Officer Steve Diamond for an update on the works and to see the progress from the viewing platform. 2 Kennington We are building two permanent shafts at Kennington Park and Kennington Green to provide ventilation, cooling and emergency access to the tunnels. At Kennington Green, utility works are continuing and foundation works (piling) has started on site and more than 30 piles have been completed to date. The Chivas wall has also been demolished to allow vehicles direct access to site. Traffic management measures remain in place and we thank you for your patience during this time. Work over the next three months will include: Completing utility works Completing the permanent hoarding Removal of obstructions Continuing piling works At Kennington Park, the diversion of a major gas main through the park has been completed. The site has also been capped in concrete to minimise dust pollution and the construction of the piling mat (the base for excavation of the shaft) continues. Piling works have started on site with more than 100 piles completed to date. Work over the next three months will include: Continuing piling works Piling rigs at Kennington Park and Green Nine Elms We are building a new Underground station at Nine Elms near Pascal Street and Wandsworth Road. Banhams Security Building has now been demolished ahead of schedule. Permanent power has been installed on site so temporary power generators are no longer needed. Piling works continue, with 86 piles completed to date and construction of the piling mat for the remainder of the station box piles and obstruction removal continues. Works over the next three months include: Continuing piling works Continuing construction of the piling mat The demolition of Banhams and the bentonite plant Battersea We are building a new Underground station in Battersea next to Battersea Park Road and the Battersea Power Station development. The station will be called ‘Battersea Power Station’. The conveyor has been commissioned and diaphragm wall works have started. Diaphragm walling (d-walling) involves excavating a narrow trench which is then filled with concrete to create the ‘walls’ of the station and crossover boxes. Utility diversion works are also taking place in Battersea Park Road to construct the new site entrance. Traffic management measures 3 are in place including a temporary bus stop eastbound, closure of the westbound bus stop and a temporary pedestrian crossing. We thank you for your patience during these works. Works over the next three months will include: Continuing with d-walling works Continuing barge movements from Battersea jetty Constructing a new site entrance The crossover box construction at Battersea Facts and figures Each running tunnel is 3.2km long – that’s more than 6km of tunnels The conveyor belt will carry the equivalent, in weight, of 50,000 Routemaster buses over the course of the project The full cost of the project is expected to be up to £1bn At its peak there will be more than 500 people working on the project When in operation, the extension will carry people from Battersea to the West End in under 15 minutes We will be constructing a total of 350 piles to build the foundations for the new Nine Elms station You said, we did… With work continuing on all sites we have received a number of enquiries and comments. Some of the issues include: Traffic management – we continue to work closely with TfL Highways and the local authorities. Monthly meetings ensure coordination of all traffic management schemes in the Kennington area Noise and vibration – we have liaised closely with affected residents, are monitoring buildings and have briefed subcontractors on their obligations Settlement Deeds and defects surveys – this process continues; all Deeds have been distributed to those who requested one and we are in the process of receiving the signed copies. Defect surveys continue and will be undertaken no less than four weeks before works that may affect your property Public utilities – we are working closely with the Statutory Utility companies to minimise the risk of service disruption that are a result of our works Site lighting – lights that were causing a nuisance to residents have been shielded and we are reviewing lighting on hoardings Working hours over the festive period All sites will shut down from the evening of 23 December until 04 January. 24/7 on-site security will continue over this period. 4 Community Liaison Groups The following Community Liaison Groups meet regularly to provide residents, businesses and councillors with an opportunity to find out more about the Northern line extension: Kennington Park and Newington Kennington Green Nine Elms and Oval Battersea Core Group – an overall liaison group considering route-wide issues Residents are welcome. Presentations, minutes and details of upcoming meetings are on our website – tfl.gov.uk/northern-line-extension. Timeline 2014 Transport and Works Act Order decision 2015 Main works start 2016 Tunnel Boring Machines arrive on site 2017 Tunnelling complete 2018 Station fit out 2019 Testing and commissioning 2020 Extension in operation Staying in touch For more information and to register for updates on the scheme, visit tfl.gov.uk/northern-line-extension You can also email the project team at nle@tfl.gov.uk or call our helpdesk on 0343 222 2424 (Option 1). We will be running regular ‘drop in’ sessions at all sites. Dates and locations will be on the website and community notice boards. Transforming the Northern line The extension includes two new 3.2km of new tunnels connecting to the existing Northern line at Kennington and two new Underground stations at Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station. The extension is part of a massive investment programme to transform the Northern line which includes: A signalling upgrade which has achieved a 20 per cent increase in capacity through central London More frequent trains following the signalling upgrade Plans to rebuild Tube stations that are critical to improving capacity and supporting regeneration. These include Tottenham Court Road, Bank, Camden Town and Elephant & Castle
That even surprised me to learn the final name will be "Battersea Power Station"
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 18, 2015 19:23:57 GMT
And that, dear reader, is how you pad out a press release.
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 18, 2015 19:43:46 GMT
And that, dear reader, is how you pad out a press release. Wonder if the 'suit' used his fingers or a calculator?
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 18, 2015 20:09:36 GMT
And that, dear reader, is how you pad out a press release. Wonder if the 'suit' used his fingers or a calculator? If it's a 'suit', guaranteed he didn't use his brain, that much is certain.
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 18, 2015 20:23:17 GMT
Wonder if the 'suit' used his fingers or a calculator? If it's a 'suit', guaranteed he didn't use his brain, that much is certain. IQ less than his shoe size then?
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 18, 2015 20:42:15 GMT
If it's a 'suit', guaranteed he didn't use his brain, that much is certain. IQ less than his shoe size then? Could be, more likely the size of the focus group = the IQ
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Post by melikepie on Dec 18, 2015 20:50:06 GMT
It certainly will be fun in the future saying Battersea Power Station station
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Post by phoenixcronin on Dec 18, 2015 22:26:35 GMT
About the new trains, or the "Modern Equivalent Vehicles" as I saw in a TFL paper, is there any guarantee that they would be made by Alstom, as they made the originals, or is it possible for a different manufacturer to get it.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 19, 2015 22:24:32 GMT
About the new trains, or the "Modern Equivalent Vehicles" as I saw in a TFL paper, is there any guarantee that they would be made by Alstom, as they made the originals, or is it possible for a different manufacturer to get it. There are no guarantees but Alstom, if they are interested in the work, must be the favourite as they have a huge amount of knowledge plus there is the Northern Line Train Service Contract which gives them availability and maintenance responsibilities on the Northern. The potential procurement covers both Northern and Jubilee which just increases Alstom's potential advantage. However I'd be surprised if no one was interested in bidding other than Alstom. As a potential to "get a foot in the door" for future tube stock orders then this order may help familiarise bidders other than Alstom and Bombardier with LU's "way of doing things". That might be considered an advantage if there is reasonable confidence that new trains can actually be brought into service with minimal risk to a new bidder. That's a big "if" if you ask me but I'm not a rolling stock supplier.
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Post by melikepie on Dec 22, 2015 14:43:17 GMT
If there are any Northern Line engineering works, it won't be due to this as the project is shutting down until the second week of January (from the 4th)
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Post by superteacher on Dec 22, 2015 20:59:26 GMT
If there are any Northern Line engineering works, it won't be due to this as the project is shutting down until the second week of January (from the 4th) There are no engineering works on the Northern over the Christmas period anyway.
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Post by phoenixcronin on Mar 26, 2016 12:16:50 GMT
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Post by patrickb on Mar 26, 2016 19:13:36 GMT
Why are they making such a wide tunnel? Not even the JLE tunnel was of this diameter.
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Post by antharro on Mar 26, 2016 19:45:35 GMT
How likely is it that there will be a definite split? I know it's been discussed a lot over the years, but is it a lot more likely now the extension is happening?
As a regular user of the Northern Line south of Kennington, it's a pain in the backside having no West End trains during the day and only a handful in the evening. I know it won't happen but I would love to have more West End trains.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 26, 2016 21:47:33 GMT
How likely is it that there will be a definite split? I know it's been discussed a lot over the years, but is it a lot more likely now the extension is happening? As a regular user of the Northern Line south of Kennington, it's a pain in the backside having no West End trains during the day and only a handful in the evening. I know it won't happen but I would love to have more West End trains. I think it's highly unlikely there will ever be any more West End trains running to/from Morden than there are now, except if the city branch has to be closed at any time (for example during the proposed upgrade work at Bank). remember that the planned layout at Kennington means that all Battersea trains will have to go via the West End. This will obviously limit the number of Morden trains which can go to the West End.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2016 10:11:08 GMT
Now that plans are underway,does anyone know whether tfl will have the good sense to give the line going via the West End to Battersea a completely new identity?.In the same way that the Jubilee Line took over the Stanmore branch of the Bakerloo Line,the new line,perhaps called the "Battersea Line,would take over either the Edgware or High Barnet branch of the Northern Line relieving us of having the confusing situation of two different Northern Lines running through the central area.I know some passengers would be annoyed about not being able to do direct journeys into the City or West End from the north and in order to facilitate interchange at Camden Town,that station is going to have to be brought into the 21st century but separating the lines would speed journeys up by eliminating the delays around Camden Town while trains cross the points going to or coming from the City or West End and going to or from High Barnet or Edgware.Tfl could then present the "Battersea" Line as a brand new line rather than an extension of an old one which looks good.While they're at it,they should rename the remaining Northern Line the "Bank" Line (or better yet,the "City Line" with the Waterloo and City Line becoming the Waterloo and Bank Line)
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 28, 2016 10:33:24 GMT
,the new line,perhaps called the "Battersea Line,would take over either the Edgware or High Barnet branch of the Northern Line ) As has been observed before, it would have to be the Edgware branch unless you are going to build a new depot somewhere. , in order to facilitate interchange at Camden Town,that station is going to have to be brought into the 21st century ) The general view is that the proposed extensive rebuilding of Camden Town would have to precede any split. The present layout would be dangerously overcrowded if any more passengers had to interchange there. I doubt that any split would take place before the completion of the proposed work at Bank (new southbound platform) as, for at least some of that time, all trains to Morden will have to use the West End branch. , rename the remaining Northern Line the "Bank" Line (or better yet,the "City Line" with the Waterloo and City Line becoming the Waterloo and Bank Line) Why rename the W&C? - and if it's because of the word "City" there's another line that would need renaming. And why the Battersea Line, rather than, say, Edgware? (to foreigners unfamiliar with English names it helps if each line has a different initial letter, although I think we're stuck with Central and Circle). I rather favour the Mornington Line, to help understanding of which of the two lines it's on!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2016 18:10:44 GMT
Well then it's probably best to give each branch the names of their traditional "via" points,the "Embankment" Line through the West End and the "Bank" Line through the City.So if you are on the Piccadilly Line you change to the "Embankment" Line at Leicester Square and to the "Bank Line" at Kings Cross.It's just makes more sense.Even if the options to go either to High Barnet or Edgware are retained for both the "Embankment" and "Bank" lines(no need for Camden Town upgrade),tube maps would show both lines running up to Edgware and both lines running up to High Barnet.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 28, 2016 18:22:19 GMT
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Post by alpinejohn on Apr 9, 2016 12:16:16 GMT
I have just spotted a recent article in the "construction enquirer" which suggests that the start date for tunneling has gone back several months. In this context I am not sure what they mean by the "Battersea crossover box" but it seems that whoever is building it is seemingly the reason for the delayed start to tunneling. As for the "modifications sometimes need to be made" comment by TFL if nothing else it confirms they are aware of this development, and at this stage are not greatly exercised by a delay to this element of the overall project. I hope the following link works: www.constructionenquirer.com/2016/04/05/northern-line-extension-tunnel-drive-delayed-over-6-months/
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 9, 2016 12:36:57 GMT
The crossover box is just on the Vauxhall side of the new station and will be the site of the crossovers/points to allow the trains to switch tracks when arriving/departing.
It will be dug from above and will allow the tunnelling machines to be lowered into position to start their digging.
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Post by bassmike on Apr 9, 2016 16:33:01 GMT
In view of the delays in actually starting tunneling,perhaps sense will prevail and the whole thing cancelled. The last thing the Northern line needs is another branch.Battersea would be better served as a branch of an extended Bakerloo line.
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Post by John Tuthill on Apr 9, 2016 16:48:10 GMT
In view of the delays in actually starting tunneling,perhaps sense will prevail and the whole thing cancelled. The last thing the Northern line needs is another branch.Battersea would be better served as a branch of an extended Bakerloo line. Which would give a direct link to Waterloo for the Jubilee to Canary Wharf
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 9, 2016 16:57:00 GMT
A Bakerloo extension would be about twice as long and more circuitous unless your destination was the Elephant. And the bakerloo is earmarked for an extension to the south east. (ands it points in the wrong direction)
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2016 17:07:56 GMT
In view of the delays in actually starting tunneling,perhaps sense will prevail and the whole thing cancelled. The last thing the Northern line needs is another branch.Battersea would be better served as a branch of an extended Bakerloo line. Which would give a direct link to Waterloo for the Jubilee to Canary Wharf Which the Battersea extension also provides! Folks, let's not drift off topic here. The extension is happening whether we like it or not. If people want to discuss extending the Bakerloo, please start a thread in RIPAS. Thanks.
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Apr 9, 2016 18:31:28 GMT
So does anyone know if passive provision was at least provided for an interchange with the Victoria line? I know it cannot link with Vauxhall now but what about a new station in the far future?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 9, 2016 19:20:48 GMT
The route chosen doesn't go via Vauxhall station, at least according to carto.metro. If an interchange with the Victoria line is to happen it will have to be at a new station. The lines do appear to both be straight at the point of crossing and they cross at approximately right angles, so I'd suggest that a new station would not be physically impossible, but I have no knowledge of whether passive provision for this has been included in the design or not. Further discussion of such an interchange station (beyond confirmation of the (lack of) passive provision) would probably be best in a RIPAS thread.
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Post by John Tuthill on Apr 9, 2016 19:25:28 GMT
So does anyone know if passive provision was at least provided for an interchange with the Victoria line? I know it cannot link with Vauxhall now but what about a new station in the far future? As the tunnel hasn't been bored yet why can't there be an interchange?
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