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Post by superteacher on Apr 10, 2018 18:20:54 GMT
I think we’ve done the Battersea Power Station (Station) name thing to death now, and it’s starting to drift into a general discussion about station names. Back on topic please. If people are desperate to carry on discussing the name, I’m happy to split the thread (after combining them the other day, doh!  )
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Post by christopher125 on Apr 13, 2018 19:49:23 GMT
They even replaced the chimneys with plastic replicas! Whoever suggested that has quite an imagination! In reality the chimneys were replaced like-for-like: "Since the process began in May 2015 some 680 tonnes of concrete have been lifted in a hoist to the tops of the chimneys, where up to eight men work exposed to wind and rain. Last to be finished was the north-west tower.
Battersea’s chief construction officer Mike Grice said builders replicated the original labour-intensive method of erecting the chimneys, both for authenticity and because it was more efficient and precise than pumping concrete up from ground level in a hose." |
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Post by bassmike on Apr 14, 2018 16:49:02 GMT
What a stupid waste of time and money
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Post by phil on Apr 16, 2018 22:33:45 GMT
What a stupid waste of time and money A significant part of the reason the building was 'listed' over 30 years ago was its distinctive chimneys. There was very little chance any large scale redevelopment would not be forced into keeping them - or as has been the case here, demolishing them and building exact replicas. As for the costs involved - that is all bourne by the private sector developer and given how much the Luxuary (and even not so Luxuary) flats are being sold for it's not as if the developer is going to lose out as a result of the need to rebuild the Chimneys. Were it a public sector funded redevelopment you might have a point - but it's not so you don't. |
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Post by superteacher on May 11, 2018 6:47:25 GMT
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Post by tjw on May 11, 2018 7:13:00 GMT
Perhaps they saw Kennington town hall, when they travelled out of their media bubble and thought it was still in use. |
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Post by John Tuthill on May 11, 2018 8:44:10 GMT
Perhaps they saw Kennington town hall, when they travelled out of their media bubble and thought it was still in use. Or they couldn't spell Southwark  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 11, 2018 9:10:02 GMT
Perhaps they saw Kennington town hall, when they travelled out of their media bubble and thought it was still in use. Kennington was never a separate borough, but was always part of the borough (civil parish until 1900) of Lambeth. The town hall (originally vestry hall) in Kennington was its headquarters from 1853 until replaced by the present building in Brixton (also part of Lambeth) in 1908. |
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Post by waysider on Jun 5, 2018 18:39:23 GMT
Still can't help but look at this extension and think the Nine Elms station is too near Vauxhall station and the Battersea PS station (one way of avoiding the previous debate!) is too close to Battersea Park, with the heart of the new development south along Nine Elms Lane curiously bypassed?
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Post by malcolmffc on Jun 5, 2018 20:28:20 GMT
This is what happens when TfL builds a tube extension that goes straight to a block of luxury flats because the developer chucked a huge pot of money at them, rather than carefully considering where a tube extension would bring the most benefits.
In 20 years’ time the Battersea extension will be seen as a foolish waste of capacity.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 5, 2018 21:59:13 GMT
This is what happens when TfL builds a tube extension that goes straight to a block of luxury flats because the developer chucked a huge pot of money at them, rather than carefully considering where a tube extension would bring the most benefits. In 20 years’ time the Battersea extension will be seen as a foolish waste of capacity. Maybe, but you can bet it will be well used! |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 5, 2018 23:34:59 GMT
Very true - in this day and age though you'd really have to try hard if you wanted to build a tube extension in inner London that wasn't well used! |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 4, 2018 23:00:15 GMT
Reading the latest Programme and Investment Cttee papers it looks like some form of commercial settlement has been reached with the developers of Battersea Power Station. They changed the design of the over station development (OSD) which resulted in a series of changes to the design of the LU station below. While none of the commercial issues are set out with numbers it looks like the developers have done something clever to raise money which is being used to settle the commercial issues between them and LU. Furthermore it looks, but is not confirmed, as if changes to the agreement governing the extension's construction have also changed. Let's hope that includes the required completion date because it's very unlikely that LU will meet it. AIUI if they were to breach the completion date then they have to pay penalties to the developer for non provision of the envisaged rail link.
This from the section about use of delegated authority by TfL Cttees.
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Post by arun on Dec 13, 2018 19:33:30 GMT
Very true - in this day and age though you'd really have to try hard if you wanted to build a tube extension in inner London that wasn't well used! And of course, being a new tube, means that the Battersea loop stands a pretty good chance of being used as a District Dave Christmas outing prior to the pub meal/Quiz in December [insert "appropriate year" here!] |
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Post by crusty54 on Dec 13, 2018 20:36:19 GMT
The extension will allow an improved service to run on the Northern line.
Should they ever find the money to split the branches a lot more trains could run.
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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 13, 2018 20:42:56 GMT
Admins sorry for veering slightly off topic, but for some time I have been wondering if we yet have an approximate opening date for the extension?
Which also got me wondering does anyone know how long will it be before all existing Guinness Records for the "Tube Challenge" will be set aside, and all future records will need to take account of the additional stations?
What is the chance someone will use the opening day of the extension to try and secure a place in the record books by setting the new record even if it is fairly slow?
Given his recent exploits on the Croydon Trams, one might even speculate that Geoff Marshall may be ready for another attempt.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2018 21:14:32 GMT
Which also got me wondering does anyone know how long will it be before all existing Guinness Records for the "Tube Challenge" will be set aside, and all future records will need to take account of the additional stations? I believe the record will change on the first day of passenger service for the new stations. What is the chance someone will use the opening day of the extension to try and secure a place in the record books by setting the new record even if it is fairly slow? I was talking to someone about this the other day, but can't for the life of me remember who! The consensus was that it is very likely that someone will attempt it on the first day that both the Battersea Extension and Olympia service is operating. The serious challengers will likely wait until things have settled down a bit and optimum routes can be worked out. Given his recent exploits on the Croydon Trams, one might even speculate that Geoff Marshall may be ready for another attempt. Not impossible but I don't think he's attempted it for quite a few years now. [/quote] |
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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 14, 2018 10:45:01 GMT
Which also got me wondering does anyone know how long will it be before all existing Guinness Records for the "Tube Challenge" will be set aside, and all future records will need to take account of the additional stations? I believe the record will change on the first day of passenger service for the new stations. What is the chance someone will use the opening day of the extension to try and secure a place in the record books by setting the new record even if it is fairly slow? I was talking to someone about this the other day, but can't for the life of me remember who! The consensus was that it is very likely that someone will attempt it on the first day that both the Battersea Extension and Olympia service is operating. The serious challengers will likely wait until things have settled down a bit and optimum routes can be worked out. Given his recent exploits on the Croydon Trams, one might even speculate that Geoff Marshall may be ready for another attempt. Not impossible but I don't think he's attempted it for quite a few years now. [/quote] Thanks Chris for confirming what I had been assuming. Your mention of also needing to visit Olympia may partially explain a very recent Geoff Marshall video where he reveals that even though the official line is Olympia only sees weekday services when there are special events at Olympia, it seems there are indeed trains most day albeit very early. His observations right at the end are perhaps also pertinent.. Whilst I agree with your comment about "Serious Challengers" looking to identify the optimum timings, I think in this instance (when the Battersea Extension) effectively re-sets the record books, some people may well be attracted to the idea of claiming the "first" record. Whilst this may not rank as an Everest moment, given the potential for extra stations being added to the tube network from the Croxley link has now been dumped, I suspect whoever completes the first entry for the new challenge will be able to secure the first listing in the record books which will last for many more years. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 14, 2018 10:50:27 GMT
Admin comment
Can we stick to the extension please, if you want to talk about the Tube Challenge then do so on another board.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 14, 2018 15:23:07 GMT
Admins sorry for veering slightly off topic, but for some time I have been wondering if we yet have an approximate opening date for the extension? The TfL website says "2020". However there has been a recent flurry of TfL papers seeking authority for a deal which I think settles the "dispute" between LUL and the developer of Battersea Power Station. The dispute arose because of design changes by the developer to the overstation development which then necessitated changes to the new LU station and will have delayed work. That delay and the extra cost would have imperiled LU's ability to meet the "in service" date. I expect that the date has been suitably adjusted to reflect the agreed extent of "delay" caused by the developer. The other factor in 2020 are the Bank branch closures. I think I've read somewhere that LU would like the Battersea extension to be up and running before the first closure at Bank as it gives more options to turn trains close to the centre. Whether that is still a viable option given the first closure is shown as 40 days in April / May 2020 I couldn't say. If I was to make a wild guess I'd say LU would try to get the Battersea Extension open in the first quarter of 2020. If that was not possible then it's second target date would in late Summer 2020 after the second Bank branch closure which is 11 weeks long. The other factor, which I've not checked, is when the BPS development itself opens. If that's later in 2020 now then there may be a question as to whether it is viable / practical to open the extension if the terminal station was somehow surrounded by a building site. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 14, 2018 16:23:28 GMT
Well trains could terminate at Nine Elms and run empty to BPS, with suitable platform staff of course, so it's probably a practical option. Whether it is desirable is a different matter.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Dec 15, 2018 10:52:28 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Dec 15, 2018 12:49:21 GMT
I've been beaten to it! Interesting that both the extension and works at Bank Station have slipped. All these delays must be costing TfL a small fortune in terms of keeping project teams active for longer and also delays to increased revenue. The only upside is that any increase in operating costs is also delayed. By my reckoning every major project in recent times and into the future has been late against programme or has had its programme changed. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 15, 2018 13:39:20 GMT
I wonder how much of that is being overly optimistic at the planning stage to get project approval and/or tighten budgets?
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Post by snoggle on Dec 15, 2018 14:45:43 GMT
I wonder how much of that is being overly optimistic at the planning stage to get project approval and/or tighten budgets? There are genuine reasons for a delay on the NLE. Slightly surprised it's as big as 9 months but clearly there is an element of not wanting too much change on the Northern Line in a short period so aiming for one timetable change post Bank and NLE completion makes sense. It probably also underlines an unstated view that the Nine Elms / BPS redevelopment may not be as big a draw as people expected when it was being planned. Given the woes with the "High Street / retailers" will people really go to BPS for a largely "retail experience" that they could get elsewhere? Possibly not but it's a bit late now! I don't know what's happening on the Bank project and if it is late / has encountered problems. The only thing that I know is being questioned at TfL Board level is the lack of accessibility to the Central Line in the plans. Obviously even if you put in lifts to / from Central Line platform level you are left with a very significant problem between train and platform that can't be easily remedied. |
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 15, 2018 15:29:54 GMT
I wonder how much of that is being overly optimistic at the planning stage to get project approval and/or tighten budgets? There are genuine reasons for a delay on the NLE. Slightly surprised it's as big as 9 months but clearly there is an element of not wanting too much change on the Northern Line in a short period so aiming for one timetable change post Bank and NLE completion makes sense. It probably also underlines an unstated view that the Nine Elms / BPS redevelopment may not be as big a draw as people expected when it was being planned. Given the woes with the "High Street / retailers" will people really go to BPS for a largely "retail experience" that they could get elsewhere? Possibly not but it's a bit late now! I don't know what's happening on the Bank project and if it is late / has encountered problems. The only thing that I know is being questioned at TfL Board level is the lack of accessibility to the Central Line in the plans. Obviously even if you put in lifts to / from Central Line platform level you are left with a very significant problem between train and platform that can't be easily remedied. Purely on the retail experience end, apart from the distinct possibility of getting it cheaper on line, how many people will be taking the Tube to buy more expensive/bulkier items, in preference to the car? Unless it's retail experience, but not as we know it, Jim, of course. |
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Post by stationless on Dec 16, 2018 2:21:02 GMT
I had read recently on IanVisits that parts of the Bank upgrade are ahead of schedule.
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 16, 2018 3:43:36 GMT
I had read recently on IanVisits that parts of the Bank upgrade are ahead of schedule. Whilst ianvisits is one of the more reliable internet sources (after all, he still takes the time to say hello to us occasionally and provides his source material, rather than let his account lapse and claim to know everything like other 'YouTube Sensations'); you shouldn't believe all you read online. That said, for the reasons outlined above, I don't doubt it. |
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 18, 2018 9:24:57 GMT
Doesn't sound like there are problems on the extension
"“In isolation the Northern Line Extension project is still on time and working towards a December 2020 finish,” the source said. “However, instead of doing a big bells and whistles unveiling then it will be realigned with the completion of works at Bank station."
A couple of points
Any programme starts off with 0 delay (by default). Some float will be added, but the more float you add, the less control you have over programme. Any risk that is an employer risk will not be on the construction programme as that measures contractor's activities. If such a risk occurs, it is instructed as a Change.
From a pure construction point of view, *every* job should finish "late" as otherwise your programme is padded and you are paying the contractor for longer than he should be there (ie his programmes says unless any of the (small number of) Employer Risks occur that is the shortest time he can do it in for the quality and pricing level you have asked for). You then have the forecasting question of how long you tell the end-user it will take - again, the more padding you put in there, the more time you have an asset standing idle.
An extension of time doesn't automatically lead to further cost - don't forget in construction there is cost/speed/quality - you can have any two of the three. Slow the job down and thin out the prelims and you can make a saving, especially if you can avoid using complicated methodology.
If anyone thinks this is new by the way, how long was the Brunel Tunnel delayed by...?
Also, delaying opening until Bank is up to capacity makes a lot of sense - the whole area around new covent garden is full of flats marketed as aspirational, I'd say the majority of the traffic on the extension is going to be going in to bank not the other way. To add load in when there is reduced capacity wouldn't be clever.
Thinking about it, I'd guess an amount of traffic from Vauxhall (vic and national rail) will probably bleed over if it's a quicker route to the city.
Does anybody know what the projected journey time would be from Clapham junction (ie train to Vauxhall, then walk to NLE, NLE to bank vs Clapham Junction to Waterloo, queue for the Drain[1], Drain to Bank)
[1] Does any journey calc at peak hours include this
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Post by Chris M on Dec 18, 2018 10:22:38 GMT
Any journey from the NLE to the Bank branch will require a change at Kennington (due to the track layout) which I imagine will reduce the attractiveness of walking from Vauxhall, especially as it will be about 15 minutes walk in the wrong direction gateline to gateline.
My guess is that the only significant transfer from NR will be from Battersea stations to Charing Cross branch destinations south of Warren Street, especially as the interchanges from the Victoria line to the Jubilee, Picc and Bakerloo are at least as good as if not better than those from the Charing Cross branch.
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