|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 25, 2011 23:03:12 GMT
*am I correct in thinking this is the highest number that can be displayed as a train number due to some of the track equipment using a binary system that only has 1,2 and 4 lines? It is the highest number that we use on the large majority of our lines due to the binary issue (not using 8s and 9s). It is probably not the highest number the S-stock can display (I've no doubt it can display up to 999 or maybe even more). It's not so much the track equipment that uses the system, it's the equipment that drives the track equipment such as the programme machines and/or computers at site or within the control room. A lot of this equipment was built in the 1960s and 1970s. The more modern control rooms do have the ability to use 8s and 9s, as they are driven by much more up-to-date (usually windows-based  ;D) computer systems. |
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Feb 26, 2011 4:02:37 GMT
Just as an aside, in the middle future, will the replacement of signalling see the ability and return of 8's and 9's?
|
|
|
|
Post by t697 on Feb 26, 2011 12:14:08 GMT
It is probably not the highest number the S-stock can display (I've no doubt it can display up to 999 or maybe even more). Just up to 999. There's only space for three numbers on the cab front DMI and the software is done accordingly. You can only enter a three digit number. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 26, 2011 19:29:16 GMT
Just as an aside, in the middle future, will the replacement of signalling see the ability and return of 8's and 9's? Yes, I would imagine that will certainly happen. But as I said, it would be with the replacement of what controls the signalling (computer terminals etc.) which will allow the numbers to be used. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 26, 2011 19:30:02 GMT
It is probably not the highest number the S-stock can display (I've no doubt it can display up to 999 or maybe even more). Just up to 999. There's only space for three numbers on the cab front DMI and the software is done accordingly. You can only enter a three digit number. Thanks for that, couldn't remember how much room there was - except I have just realised I had a picture of the stock in front of me last night when I was typing ;D |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Feb 26, 2011 21:44:51 GMT
Just as an aside, in the middle future, will the replacement of signalling see the ability and return of 8's and 9's? Yes, I would imagine that will certainly happen. But as I said, it would be with the replacement of what controls the signalling (computer terminals etc.) which will allow the numbers to be used. The Central line signalling has been updated for years, but they still don't use 8's and 9's for passenger trains, even though I'm sure the technology can cope. Force of habit perhaps? |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 27, 2011 0:14:17 GMT
I strongly suspect that after upgrade, the next hurdle is the equipment which helps to compile our timetables. As I understand it, the large majority of that "computer" equipment is driven by a large key and some very meaty cog wheels.
So, maybe we'll have to wait for that to also be updated to the current century.
To be honest, it is only those who live outside "our world" and know of the restriction that find this a problem. In all honesty, given the complexity of our operations, we should have moved beyond 8s and 9s and even on to 4 digit numbers by now. But still we thrive on our limited series of numbers. It adds a certain challenge to those of us running either additional empty stock moves or implementing special services.
A typical Met line special service should use what series? 000s are boring and post 1990 and some are used by the Green railway anyway. 100s are also Green railway. 200s are Circles and H&Cs. 300s are Jubilee which run too close to us. 400s are what we run anyway so nothing special about that. 500s, 600s and 700s are engineers trains.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 21:24:36 GMT
Aww no! I must have done as I think I got there at 12:36, and by my records boarded T435 (5022) at 12:39 and got T441 (21018) at 12:54 from Baker Street (also saw 21014 showing train number 777* on its display outside Neasden on the road next to the trainwash). *am I correct in thinking this is the highest number that can be displayed as a train number due to some of the track equipment using a binary system that only has 1,2 and 4 lines? Don't panic we must be talking different days, as 21018 was leading the Semi Fast Uxbridge train. This was Friday. The S can show 8 and 9 as can the radio set up, but as you surmise, i suspect the programme machines won't like it! The Central line signalling has been updated for years, but they still don't use 8's and 9's for passenger trains, even though I'm sure the technology can cope. Force of habit perhaps? All the more odd since they do use 8 and 9 in the numbers for run as required trains and training trains, stock moves etc. A typical Met line special service should use what series? 000s are boring and post 1990 and some are used by the Green railway anyway. 100s are also Green railway. 200s are Circles and H&Cs. 300s are Jubilee which run too close to us. 400s are what we run anyway so nothing special about that. 500s, 600s and 700s are engineers trains. Not forgetting your good friends on the dark blue railway who use the high 200's and low 300's ;D |
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on Feb 27, 2011 21:57:48 GMT
Can I ask how you get the actual train number (not the unit number)? For example what number what 21010 be?
Edit: Apologies if this isn't in the relevant thread. Mods please move if need be! ;D
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Feb 27, 2011 22:24:14 GMT
What do you mean? The set number eg [430] or [451] or each car number?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2011 22:25:56 GMT
I guess he means what number the train is - like train 2 is cars number y to z
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 2:18:56 GMT
Just stick with 400s - An Octal system may be fairly outdated, but do we really need a decimal one?
|
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on Feb 28, 2011 11:43:49 GMT
I guess he means what number the train is - like train 2 is cars number y to z Yes |
|
|
|
Post by metrolander on Feb 28, 2011 19:21:55 GMT
Anyone (or, more specifically, MetControl!) know what happened with train 21007 this evening? I was on it, a Watford-Wembley Park service but after a little wait outside HOTH, we were advised it was going out of service due to a technical fault. I have been commuting on the Met recently so had a few more rides on S stock, my current job also overlooks the Watford branch so I see them pootling back and forth on a regular basis, this was my first experience of a problem!
I have the smallest suspicion it's to do with the doors? Of course I could be way off but certainly nothing else untoward was apparent. On my rides so far I've observed that there is generally a little pause between the train stopping and the doors opening, but today it was noticeably longer at a few stops and at Northwood the T/Op made a rather hasty and therefore quite amusing PA as the wait was really quite something! Long enough for me to wonder there and then if there was a problem. As was, we continued, such a delay didn't occur at the remaining stops and we then pulled to a halt shortly before HOTH. Now, since resuming regular travel on the Met I've actually returned home a different way on a few occasions and TBH I'm therefore not sure if waiting for the platform at HOTH southbound is a regular thing; given the layout there I'd imagine it probably isn't unusual. So, I didn't make much of it, only noting the automated 'this train is being held at a red signal, London Ungeround apologises...' etc etc PA as has been discussed recently I think with regards to the 09 stock. However, another automated PA shortly followed, breaking the bad news. D'OH!
Edit: PS twas Train 441 btw although I'm sure anyone who could shed any light would know that (at least, that's what it said once it was displaying not in service whilst sat in the platform, didn't observe when I boarded)
PPS I'm not on a witch-hunt by the way, purely curious as for the first time since I've been on this forum I experienced something slightly non-standard. Having worked in behind-the-scenes Operational world myself before (in a very different area of the transport industry) I am often intrigued by the insights of MetControl as I can relate to the sort of 'firefighting juggler' acts he has to pull off, mindful of both pressure from and the obligation to inform everyone and his brother from both above and below! Indeed, I also welcome how forthcoming pjrb is when presented with genuine enquiries about the S stock programme, as opposed to the sensationalised, borderline nihilistic bashing which has occasionally reared it's head on here
Ta!
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 28, 2011 20:05:44 GMT
Can I ask how you get the actual train number (not the unit number)? For example what number what 21010 be? Edit: Apologies if this isn't in the relevant thread. Mods please move if need be! ;D Going on what I think you mean... The depots on each line allocate the rolling stock to trains first thing in the morning. They generally allocate the stock in such a way that over the course of the day the stock they require back into the depot for maintenance that evening comes back, and the stock not needed forms the outstablers in sidings or platforms away from the depot. At the start of each day, the depots issue a series of sheets which gives the leading car numbers of each train at each location, and what train the stock will run as. So for example, it may detail that Train 423 will start from 23 siding at Uxbridge, and have the lead car number of 5011. Now of course during disruption, this car number may end up being made into a different train, for example 423 may need to make train 441. Until a few years ago, people were assigned from the depot to keep track of what was happening to the stock, in particular any stock that was required by the depot. They did this by either keeping track of what we as controllers were doing, or simply by "train spotting" at key locations. The other way was to contact drivers by radio and ask for their lead car number. Nowadays, with the advent of our Connect radio system, we can key in a train number and it displays the lead car number. Alternatively we can key in a certain car number, and it will display to us which train the car is running on. Very very useful - in fact probably one of the most useful aspects of the radio system. So in short answer to your question, it is the depot who will know what train a certain car/unit will be on. In the case of S-stock, the depot will only allocate it at present to a train that is due to return that evening to the depot, as we currently do not outstable the S-stock. |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Feb 28, 2011 20:15:08 GMT
Anyone (or, more specifically, MetControl!) know what happened with train 21007 this evening? I was on it, a Watford-Wembley Park service but after a little wait outside HOTH, we were advised it was going out of service due to a technical fault. Pass I'm afraid. Currently away from work this week (anyone keeping a close eye on the number of times I've said that lately will think I'm never actually there ;D ) I am sure news will filter through as the next couple of days go on. I will make some enquiries and update when I can - unless someone beats me to it. I am often intrigued by the insights of MetControl as I can relate to the sort of 'firefighting juggler' acts he has to pull off, mindful of both pressure from and the obligation to inform everyone and his brother from both above and below! Thank you for that. Of course I have to be honest and say that the juggling we normally do is to pass the "hot potatoes" that land in our laps on to someone else to deal with, leaving us more time to deal with the bigger issues. Like who's making the next cuppa  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by metrolander on Feb 28, 2011 21:53:48 GMT
Thanks MetControl - clearly you would be the source I would look to, I will wait and see.
As for the tea reference most amusing as it has long struck me that the prevalence and importance of this beverage is also a uniform constant when it comes to working at the sharper end of any mode of transport you care to mention! From gnarled minicab radio operators to RAF fast jet pilots... It's continued presence is mission critical!
|
|
|
|
Post by astock5000 on Mar 4, 2011 1:36:38 GMT
Can I ask how you get the actual train number (not the unit number)? For example what number what 21010 be? I think you mean the 'train numbers' that are supposed to be the order the S stock is delivered, and not the 4xx numbers used for the service (which change, as they are diagram numbers and nothing to do with the units). 21010 is part of Train 4. Unit number: Train number21001: Pre-production train 1 / Train 57 21003: Train 1 21005: Train 2 21007: Train 3 up to: 21097: Train 48 21099: Pre-production train 2 / Train 58 21101: Train 49 21103: Train 50 up to: 21115: Train 56 So for example, it may detail that Train 423 will start from 23 siding at Uxbridge, and have the lead car number of 5011. But in that case, wouldn't you need to cancel train 423 and find out how on earth a train got stabled at Uxbridge with an inner end DM as its leading car? |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Mar 4, 2011 12:30:53 GMT
But in that case, wouldn't you need to cancel train 423 and find out how on earth a train got stabled at Uxbridge with an inner end DM as its leading car? You may recall our stock shortages at the end of last year? Well, if it ever gets that bad again, we'll push out just about anything to keep things moving ;D (Yes very well spotted, but it was just an example and I let my fingers do the choosing on the number-pad and that's what came out. Maybe it's an omen  ;D ) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 14:13:03 GMT
But in that case, wouldn't you need to cancel train 423 and find out how on earth a train got stabled at Uxbridge with an inner end DM as its leading car? You may recall our stock shortages at the end of last year? Well, if it ever gets that bad again, we'll push out just about anything to keep things moving ;D (Yes very well spotted, but it was just an example and I let my fingers do the choosing on the number-pad and that's what came out. Maybe it's an omen ;D ) Just sneak into Neasden depot one night with a can of red spray.... Nobody will notice the difference ;D |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Mar 4, 2011 17:06:56 GMT
He he!!! Mind you, you wouldn't be able to couple up to anything!
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Mar 8, 2011 18:08:45 GMT
I dunno, could try a towbar and adapter. That should be good for... 10mph... right? Mwuahahahaha.
|
|
|
|
Post by c3c on Mar 12, 2011 20:25:17 GMT
Have any of the production trains been testing beyond Baker Street. When are they expected to run in service up there?
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Mar 13, 2011 9:30:01 GMT
All I can say at present is yes (including twice this week) and soon ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by dangeruxb on Mar 16, 2011 13:47:33 GMT
A load more sightings to clarify a few points already stated in this thread:-
21003 Train 465 21/02
21005 Train 441 21/02
21009 Train 465 22/02 going OOS @ HOH
21009 Train 465 23/02
21017 Train 401 25/02 HOH - WTF @ 10:14
21017 Train 465 02/03
21017 Train 465 03/03
21007 Train 441 03/03
21009 Train 451 07/03
21017 Train 451 08/03
21017 Train 451 09/03
21003 Train 451 11/03
Noticed an uid S Stock on the reception roads outside Neasden depot last night (15/03) about 19:15. Was this Train 441 turned around early after the Ickenham issues or was this a delivery or test run?
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Mar 16, 2011 22:29:15 GMT
Noticed an uid S Stock on the reception roads outside Neasden depot last night (15/03) about 19:15. Was this Train 441 turned around early after the Ickenham issues or was this a delivery or test run? Most likely to be 441 or one of the other scheduled runs. It certainly wasn't a new delivery and unlikely to be a test-run at that time of the evening, especially given the service being operated. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 8:31:57 GMT
Travelled on 22:54 Baker Street - Chesham all the way to Chesham yesterday. I knew it is sometimes formed of S Stock, so I was half expecting it, but I was still surprised to see it in the platform! My only problem is the drivers have to stick to the speed limit with the S stock and the Chesham branch is long and boring at night  |
|
|
|
Post by causton on Mar 17, 2011 19:03:40 GMT
21009 was on T441 - caught it at 16:34(or is it 33?) at Baker Street after missing it by 5 seconds at 16:20 at Finchley Rd |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 19:34:50 GMT
@bengley, what does S stock do if you dont stick to the speed limit?
Apparently 8X09 is running this wednesday night/thursday morning so another S8 is nigh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 22:24:59 GMT
@bengley, what does S stock do if you dont stick to the speed limit? Apparently 8X09 is running this wednesday night/thursday morning so another S8 is nigh. I understand it'll slow itself down automatically. |
|
;D) computer systems.
;D
;D 
