S stock delivery & introduction - discussion

I saw the defective S Stock at Finchley Road tonight as I got off the Jub, preparing to change: I took one look at it, listened to the announcement that passengers should go onto Wembley Park on the Jub, and back on I went! By the time I got to Wembley Park (I had to change at Willesden Green), the train had apparentely just left Finchley Road empty, and an Uxbridge train was at least 10 mins away. I took my chances with a bus at Queensway back to Ruislip! I have to say that HOTH didn't look that busy when we passed over the bridge, and the Met still doesn't look that clever on the TFL site, 4 hours later. It doesn't usually take this long to recover, does it?

Took me 90 minutes to get from West Hamspstead to Amersham via Finchley Road.

When I got to Finchley Road the S stock was on platform 1, don't know how long it had been there, this was about 6:15. I have no idea of the defect, but one set of doors was partly open, all the others seemed either open or closed. Passengers were eventually de trained. The Jubilee was thus packed and I had to let several go through. An Uxbridge train pulled in shortly after the S stock left and then set off with passengers. the next train was an Uxbridge, but this had passengers taken off as the driver said "being taken out of service as the new train has broken down again and needed to go into the depot, so they needed a clear line". Sadly, the new trains may be getting a reputation.

Considering there's only a couple of S stock trains running, it's amazing how much damage they've managed to inflict on the service already.

Maybe it's time for the trains to be withdrawn from service until their reliability is assured.

I cannot answer your questions as I was not on duty during the disruption. I will add one thing though. After discussion with a senior colleague it appears the A-stock were not without their problems when they were introduced. Doors were one issue.

I think for any reasonable and mature discussion to continue, and for those who know what's going on to be able to feel they can explain everything without being shot down, some of the immense negativity needs to be left at the logging-in screen or taken to the rant area or somewhere.

It is a new train. It has had teething problems - show me one new product that doesn't. There is no question of the fleet being abandoned. Unfortunately, however much the initial running of the train affects the service, the faults cannot always be detected within a depot, and full-on front-line service is sometimes what it takes to find the problems. Once found, they are not ignored.

It will all come good in the end, just as the A-stock did. But then that was so many years ago very few people are still around to remember it.

This has been mentioned on another forum. DBS (EWS) have recently lost a shunting contract in south Wales and the class 73 was urgently required to take over the duties.

As far as I have been made aware, the only problem on the Jubilee was the fact that their post-peak service had problems accessing the depot, due to the large number of Met trains using the depot reception roads. This is unfortunately a common occurance when shutdowns happen at that time of evening.

The fault has been narrowed down to a wiring problem which was compounded by the on-board computer trying to do what it was designed to do - which without the initial problem it would have rescued the train.

My second message and guess the subject?

Quick overview of events for those that are interested:

Last night I left to go home from Finchley Road at 6ish and jumped onto a S stock at the platform. I immediately noticed that only half of the lights were on. Doors then closed and rather than setting off all the lights went out. After a few minutes they half came back on and the driver advised us to take the Jubilee however the doors were still closed. Eventually the doors were opened after watching 3 Jubilees go past and now the platform was packed.

After detraining the train was taken out of action and I took the proceeding Uxbridge. Sensibly the UXB train did not leave until the S Stock had got a fair distance down the road. Unfortunately the S died again at Neasden platform so we were de-trained at Willesden Green it took 10 mins to cross over to the platform is was so busy, and I made my way to Wembley on the Jubilee. After 20 mins there was an all stations to Watford and back to Northwood hills about an hour late.

Comments / Observations

For those calling for the removal of S stock, how do you think these type of problems will be fixed ? As long as it is not the same problem repeating over and over you will always get teething problems with a new product. Remember you don’t get 20 people posting every morning to say that their journey was fine only the problems are reported.

At Finchley Road it appears the driver did the equivalent of an alt-ctrl-del however with the doors closed us punters could not take the option of getting out which may have reduced the numbers stuck.

De-training at Willesden was not helped by the fact they did not turn on the platform lights. All that money spent on nice shiney lights a few years back and not used when needed.

Going past Neasden and seeing the stalled train it looks like it was stopped at the point that crew changes are carried out or was held waiting for signals to take the crossing but stalled again. Could it not have been pathed to run straight into the depot non-stop and the secondary delay would have been avoided ?

As someone else said why was it not pushed by the following empty A stock. There were comments on another thread that S carried a coupler ? That said it was right next to the depot was there nothing that could drag it home ?

It took an age to get anything out of the depot to run north. With the introduction of the S and the end of the A on ELL I would have thought there is enough spare A at the depot and this is also where crew changes happen ?

I wonder how many of the problems are down to the fact that the S Stock need higher voltage and other things that cannot be implemented until all the A’s are put to bed. I know in my own work a compromise always means the worse of both.

I know I am just a punter so my observations are just that with no direct knowledge.

I am sure the S Stock will get there and in a few years time be as reliable or better than what they are replacing.

Leo

I actually tried to look this morning as I wondered about this. Which makes me again question why it stopped at Neasden. As said it looks like it was right next to the crew tunnel slope as if someone tried to get on / off.



Sorry I was not trying to be that specific I mean crew changes take place around WP / Neasden so in the local vicinity. It took so long I could have walked to Neasden and back in the time it took for a train to arrive.

There should be a MCM (Motor Converter Module) for the motors. What can happen is if there is a LIM (Line Interference Monitor) fitted and it trips too many times it will shut that MCM and ACM on that car down. I'm not sure how many MCMs and ACMs each S Stock has but both are usually isolated if there is a problem I'm not a driver so I could be talking utter **** and something else different happened!

And to add to linecontroller66 above, way, way over their driving hours allowed, so hats off to them. Driving hours still count during a breakdown or stuck in traffic etc, and the adjustments must be made on the other side of the next viable break. So to have any service at all speaks volumes.

From the A stock withdrawal discussion thread:

Which one? Obviously it can't be 21017, and I saw 21009 and 21013 last month, so it must be either 21003, 21005 or 21007.

During this incident the Jubilee had a "person ill on train" (PIOT) at Canary Wharf E/B, whilst on the W/B platform a train was "not communicating" (or similar). So their service was already failing apart at that point.

I see. I wasn't aware of that - which probably explains why use of the depot was almost as critical for them as it was for the Met.

(Nice slip there by the way - if indeed it was a slip. Whilst most lines "fall apart" the Jubilee "fails apart" ;D ;D)

That's a cracking shot of yours at Northwood featured in the new issue of Rail, Julian. Well done. ;D

THC