Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 6, 2010 0:44:03 GMT
Colin! regarding the Upminster - Hornchurch shuttle and your suggestion it shouldn't be run, I have to respectfully suggest you are talking absolute nonsence! Certainly if it is possible to run the service it should be run. I'd totally refute your comments about it's usefulness. I had a feeling you'd say something when you saw this - I'm sure we'll have a chat about it next time we see each other at work... Hopefully it made it to Upminster! I would have thought so - the yard was looking more like it's normal self this evening, though we're still a good few down with 3 C stocks making it look fuller than it is. Here's how you get from the the Inner Home at East Ham through Barking:  EDIT: I should add that it took quite a while to pass through that area as of course we can't go above 10mph - I stabled at 00.15 in Upminster depot, so it must have taken me about 25 minutes to do what would normally be a 3 minute journey from East Ham to Barking. If any of our general public members are wondering why we aren't running a service through the area using the appropriate procedures, I think you'll see the answer is quite obvious now. I was also told that the station starter at Barking would be clear when I was given the above form, along with the instruction that I had authority to pass the named signals without needing to speak to anyone and that all relevant points were correctly secured - at that time I wasn't aware that FF57 is the Barking station starter signal and as you see above, is on the form. I questioned the state of play with the Barking signaller and his reply did make me smile....."I don't want to risk touching any buttons driver. I'm not gonna clear it so if it's on your form and you've already been given authority for the signals on it, that's fine by me". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 1:01:51 GMT
The TFL live status update now shows the District and Hammersmith lines as running to a good service.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 6, 2010 1:09:49 GMT
Well we are in engineering hours now, so that's quite true!!
I had a duty manager on my train earlier acting as silver control - that is the person designated as being in charge of the ongoing incident at Barking. She suggested we would be running in the morning (ie, in 3 hours time)...so we'll have to wait & see.
If we do run through, I wouldn't have thought it'll be the full booked service as some stock is still out of place - 3 C stocks are still in Upminster and Upminster is probably still short on D stocks (though I wasn't there till the end of traffic so I don't know what the final tally of D stocks is at Upminster).
We could certainly see the full booked service by the evening peak.
Time will tell....
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 6, 2010 3:45:25 GMT
I really must get some sleep, but before I do, I note the TfL website has reverted back to the suspension message.....
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 6, 2010 6:22:44 GMT
I had to take this out of Northfields Depot with a pilot and ran it as far as Earls Court. Hopefully it made it to Upminster There is a thread in another forum with a photo showing 2 D Stocks in the depot. |
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Post by citysig on Jul 6, 2010 9:08:50 GMT
Be interested to know what the plan is, in terms of cleaning them... get them back in to service and clean when the service is suspended at the weekends? At present, until we get Barking Sidings back into use (hopefully some time today) we've got nowhere to put all the trains at Wembley and Neasden. Once we get Barking back, we will have somewhere to put stablers later this evening and then be able to start organising crews to get the other C-stocks back. On top of this, once Barking is available, the 3 C-stocks at Upminster will be transferred to Barking Sidings. The current "plan" is to start "normally" tomorrow - although with 6 trains missing on the north Met, there will be a fair few gaps to try and cover. Gradually all C-stocks will get back to Hammersmith, they will have any exams due, be cleaned where necessary, and then be signed off ready for service. Tomorrow may start off quite bitty, but hopefully as the day progresses things will start to get back to normality - this is as long as the District is all fixed and working of course. |
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Post by liamharrison72 on Jul 6, 2010 12:53:42 GMT
Hi there. I havent gone through every post on this topic but I still havent been able to read on how the fire started. Or did I just miss it? Has the fire brigade come to a conclusion on how this fire started?
With regards to Barking sidings out of use and other depots having too many trains in them I had an idea. Now, I know my idea will never be used and just thrown behind all superiors shoulders but in New York city they have elevated tracks and sometimes elevated tracks over elevated tracks. On various parts of these elevated tracks they stable trains on. Would this not be something which could have saved alot of hassle in London or is having elevated tracks with sidings on them a no no for the London underground? I think they look great. I think they would do the job.
Also I thought each train has its own battery for back up... Why when there is a situation like this could each train not just use its battery back up to move to the depots/sidings in order to lessen the dissrupted service?
What is the point of having these batteries in them? When are they actually used?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 6, 2010 13:31:52 GMT
Hi there. I havent gone through every post on this topic but I still havent been able to read on how the fire started. Or did I just miss it? Has the fire brigade come to a conclusion on how this fire started? Nobody knows how the fire started. There are several theories but they remain only theories at this time. With regards to Barking sidings out of use and other depots having too many trains in them I had an idea. Now, I know my idea will never be used and just thrown behind all superiors shoulders but in New York city they have elevated tracks and sometimes elevated tracks over elevated tracks. On various parts of these elevated tracks they stable trains on. Would this not be something which could have saved alot of hassle in London or is having elevated tracks with sidings on them a no no for the London underground? I think they look great. I think they would do the job. Like you say, it's not realistic. But in terms of train stabling, well we can in theory stable anywhere. The problem is how you would maintain the trains and prepare them for service. Currently all trains have to prepared to a set procedure by depot staff at night as we cannot take a train into service if this hasn't been done in the previous 24 hours. And you cannot maintain a train if you cannot get access all round it (ie, if it were stabled in a platform). Some platform stabling is done on a daily basis these days, but it's managed by having a train leave a depot late in the evening so that come the morning start up it's still within it's 24 hour prep parameter. Stabling in depots is far more preferable. Also I thought each train has its own battery for back up... Why when there is a situation like this could each train not just use its battery back up to move to the depots/sidings in order to lessen the dissrupted service? What is the point of having these batteries in them? When are they actually used? Batteries only provide power to low voltage circuits - traction motors require far more than anything the batteries on passenger trains can provide. There are two main purposes behind the use of batteries; to keep low voltage circuits alive whilst a train passes over a gap in the traction current rails and to keep the emergency lighting/communication going on board when traction current is lost. If you think about all the gaps in the traction current rails around the network, particularly where there are points, you'll realise that the on board batteries are actually used a heck of a lot on a daily basis. EDIT: this is the start of a thread drift folks. If you want to continue discussing technical stuff on trains, please start a new thread in the Trains Technical area. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 16:25:06 GMT
When I passed Northfields earlier this afternoon there was only one D stock left there, west end of the depot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 17:51:31 GMT
Why did they not introduce point 2 point working? Surely the procedure was designed for events such as this?
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Post by citysig on Jul 6, 2010 18:17:37 GMT
In theory, yes. In practice, sometimes it is easier to stick with working trains through under the original failure conditions. Have a flick through the procedure, work out what needs to be done (including limitations on different stock types, staffing numbers, what each member of staff needs to do, the route... I could go on). Unfortunately, it's why we rarely use it.
However, I have used it successfully on a handful of occasions - but it has to be said the conditions were slightly "easier" and the procedure fitted better to those particular scenarios.
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Post by liamharrison72 on Jul 6, 2010 18:45:43 GMT
Sorry to go off topic here. I wont carry on after this one question. If the batteries are only there to provide power to low voltage circuits then how is it when a train enters or leaves a depot they can move in and out of the depot when there is no live rails to provide power to the trains?
I promise i will stay on track now.
Back on the fire at Barking... How is work going with the burnt out cables. Are they repaired yet?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 6, 2010 19:33:51 GMT
Big delays at Wimbledon this morning: huge crowd and no trains, and it seems that the announcers (who are, I believe SWT staff) seemed to know little about what was going on: they knew where approaching trains were (as could anyone with Internet access!) but admitted they wouldn't know where it was going until it came into view: presumably because they can tell the difference between D stock and C stock, beacuse they announced approaching D stocks as City trains (even though the first to arrive was going to HSK!)
How are they going to manage when S stock is running both services?
(now posted in the RIGHT thread!)
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Post by tubeprune on Jul 6, 2010 19:38:28 GMT
Sorry to go off topic here. I wont carry on after this one question. If the batteries are only there to provide power to low voltage circuits then how is it when a train enters or leaves a depot they can move in and out of the depot when there is no live rails to provide power to the trains? Try this for the answer: www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/tractioncurr.htm#in Depots |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 6, 2010 19:39:10 GMT
Sorry to go off topic here. I wont carry on after this one question. If the batteries are only there to provide power to low voltage circuits then how is it when a train enters or leaves a depot they can move in and out of the depot when there is no live rails to provide power to the trains? , and can plug into a 'shore supply' until they have moved out onto the juice rails, at least that's my understanding. Anyway, Barking.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 19:40:52 GMT
Sorry to go off topic here. I wont carry on after this one question. If the batteries are only there to provide power to low voltage circuits then how is it when a train enters or leaves a depot they can move in and out of the depot when there is no live rails to provide power to the trains? I don't quite understand your post. There is normal traction current rails for the entrance/exit to depots; there may be gaps in taction current rails, but (as in the rest of the railway) no train is entirely 'off juice'. With passenger stocks the batteries are only there to provide current to the auxilliary circuits (as has already been stated). If the train is in a depot road with no traction current rails then there are overhead trollies which can be plugged into under the train to provide traction current. Some depots with wheel lathes though use a small remote controlled loco which is connected to the mains to move the train. |
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Post by Dmitri on Jul 6, 2010 20:05:03 GMT
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 6, 2010 21:03:34 GMT
So, The Big Fire at Barking.
What's the current service situation? I read on the TfL site that:
"Suspended between Plaistow and Dagenham East, with minor delays on the rest of the line, due to emergency engineering work at Barking.
Trains through central London will run at about five minute intervals. There will be no Hammersmith & City line services between Whitechapel and Barking.
A limited replacement bus service will operate between Plaistow and Dagenham East. For alternative routes please use C2C or National Express East Anglia rail services, other Tube lines, Docklands Light Railway or local bus services."
Until when is this realistically (best guess) likely to last?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 21:07:38 GMT
So, The Big Fire at Barking. What's the current service situation? I read on the T fL site that: "Suspended between Plaistow and Dagenham East, with minor delays on the rest of the line, due to emergency engineering work at Barking. Trains through central London will run at about five minute intervals. There will be no Hammersmith & City line services between Whitechapel and Barking. A limited replacement bus service will operate between Plaistow and Dagenham East. For alternative routes please use C2C or National Express East Anglia rail services, other Tube lines, Docklands Light Railway or local bus services." Until when is this realistically (best guess) likely to last? it also fails to mention that the last train will be up to 90 minutes earlier than it should be and that the gaps will be much longer than five minutes. |
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Post by 21146 on Jul 6, 2010 21:43:05 GMT
I saw D Stock trains "666" amd "667" running empty through from Plaistow to Upminster today.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 23:36:54 GMT
The Circle now has minor delays due to a person on the track earlier at South Kensington while it's suspended.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 7, 2010 1:19:30 GMT
If I were a betting man, I'd put a large wager down for a through service from start of traffic today (Wed). I had to stable at Ealing Common as they'd run out of relief drivers at Plaistow (another thread for another time  ) - I suggested taking it to Upminster if the stock needed balancing but was told it wasn't possible as "they're testing out so we can't run trains through Barking". That's the first positive clue. Then on the last c2c out of Fenchurch Street (phew, I made it!) I clocked the signals as we went through the area. All of those with no aspect last night now had their aspects working. Bingo! another positive that things are looking good. Nobody was working on the new section of cabling and the temporary lighting was off, suggesting no further work is needing to be done on the cable run. That's three good signs.... I don't think it'll be a full peak service in the morning - Barking sidings still had just the one D stock in it with no C's, and the three C's are still at Upminster (which still seems to be about 3 or 4 short on D stocks with those out doing Dagenham shuttles taken into account). I reckon we'll be cooking on gas by Wednesdays evening peak though...... |
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Post by citysig on Jul 7, 2010 2:01:43 GMT
If I were a betting man, I'd put a large wager down for a through service from start of traffic today (Wed). If you had placed that bet, then you could be accused of cheating, because the decision (whether you were aware or not) was made some time before your post  ;D "Full" District and H&C timetables in operation from (as I post) later today. No C-stocks in Barking, so the morning service from there will be a bit grim, but we do have the odd extra train out-stabled. Hammersmith depot is now full (with the Wembley / Neasden depot C-stocks going back there earlier on Tuesday afternoon.) The service more or less shut down early Tuesday evening to allow us to position trains ready for Wednesday morning. I would imagine the H&C will be more or less full and right time service by about mid-morning. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 7, 2010 3:29:45 GMT
I'm only a driver so I ain't important enough to included in the information flow  ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 4:52:03 GMT
All back to normal today.
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) - I suggested taking it to Upminster if the stock needed balancing but was told it wasn't possible as "they're testing out so we can't run trains through Barking". That's the first positive clue.
;D
;D ;D ;D
