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Post by harlesden on Jun 19, 2010 4:22:55 GMT
If a driver found his train had been signalled onto the wrong branch - an Uxbridge Piccadilly signalled onto the Heathrow branch, for example - what would be the recommended course of action? Has it ever happened? I assume today's sophisticated systems make it impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 5:16:06 GMT
If a driver found his train had been signalled onto the wrong branch - an Uxbridge Piccadilly signalled onto the Heathrow branch, for example - what would be the recommended course of action? They will normally have to carry on. Sometimes a local manager or supervisor will conduct them on their excursion and there may be a limit on their speed if the stock or operator is not meant to be on that route. In the example you have given the train would carry on (unless it was the last train in this instance). The other option is a Wrong Direction Move back to the signal that was accepted in error. It has. I assume today's sophisticated systems make it impossible. No chance! It's human or equipment error that has caused the wrong signal and human error that has caused the accepting of it. Only places where Surface Stock detectors will prevent a bigger train going too far where only a little train should be! It won't prevent a wrong signal being lowered and further accepted. If there was equipment such as Positive Train Identification in place - so that the train and signalling communicated with one another, wrong signals would be less likely. And maybe in the equipment worked properly like it was designed to do back in the 1960s..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 8:49:45 GMT
I think what the OP is referring to though is within-line Wrong Sticks - for example Taking the Wrong Road on a Northern Line Train at Kennigton or Camden Town, or on the Central at North Acton/Leytonstone. Would the same restrictions apply, or would the driver of the offending train simply end up swapping into the working of the next train down the branch - AFAIK all T/Ops sign the whole line they work, with the possible exemption of Upminster Drivers on the District and the Edgware Road branch - I'm sure I remember reading that somewhere *shrug*
Certainly it seems more logical where the only mitigating obstacles to a straight swap with the "one behind him" are possible misplacement for crew relief on one or other train, but you have spare drivers for that.
EDIT: Added additional point, as first attempt didn't make sense!
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Post by citysig on Jun 19, 2010 13:04:00 GMT
The way in which I read the OP, the question was asked "had a train been signalled onto the wrong branch" and actually did not say "had a train accepted a signal onto the wrong branch" - i.e. passed the wrong signal and carried on for some distance.
So just to cover the "less negative" outcome...
Simple cases of "Wrong Signal Lowered" are more or less everyday events - although I think with the amount of assisting technology signallers now have at their disposal, it is much less likely than it used to be. And even so, we're only talking a very small number of occurances for the whole system, over the entire traffic day.
Some are computer or program machine "glitches." Some are minor misunderstandings between parties. Others are simple human error. There isn't a computer system in existence that will not make an error at some point, so no matter how sophisticated the equipment gets, you will lessen the risk but never remove it.
Provided the train has not passed the offending signal, the procedure is the same system-wide. The Train Operator reports the incorrect signal to the signaller. The train must be confirmed as stationary at the signal. The Train Operator will be advised that the signal will be returned to danger and the correct signal / route cleared, and upon receiving the correct, clear signal, the train will be able to proceed.
Normally takes between 1 and 3 minutes from the Train Operator report to getting moving again. It normally snarls things up for a few more minutes. As a signaller who may have made an error, you work very hard to make amends and get everything moving ;D
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 19, 2010 14:57:50 GMT
I think what the OP is referring to though is within-line Wrong Sticks - for example Taking the Wrong Road on a Northern Line Train at Kennigton or Camden Town, or on the Central at North Acton/Leytonstone. Would the same restrictions apply, or would the driver of the offending train simply end up swapping into the working of the next train down the branch - Certainly it seems more logical where the only mitigating obstacles to a straight swap with the "one behind him" are possible misplacement for crew relief on one or other train, And the not insignificant point, if the wrong stick is taken, that you have a trainload of passengers expecting to go to Heathrow who find themselves at Ealing Common instead of South Ealing!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 20:03:04 GMT
Provided the train has not passed the offending signal, the procedure is the same system-wide. The Train Operator reports the incorrect signal to the signaller. The train must be confirmed as stationary at the signal. The Train Operator will be advised that the signal will be returned to danger and the correct signal / route cleared, and upon receiving the correct, clear signal, the train will be able to proceed. There may be times when the controller decides to ask the driver to accept the signal and divert their train, rather than delay all the trains behind by taking a release. Time of day and the exact route involved will be the factors involved in this decision. Eg. late running Tower Hill trains are often short-tripped at Mansion House, if the train gets the wrong signal approaching Mansion House (ie. for the EB main rather than the bay) it would not be an unusual decision to extend the train back to its original Tower Hill working rather than take a release, and deal with the late running on its next trip.
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Post by james66526 on Jul 5, 2010 2:38:08 GMT
It definately happens! Got a wrong stick at Hanger Lane on my 70 hour assessment...
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Post by tubeprune on Jul 15, 2010 15:38:39 GMT
It definately happens! Got a wrong stick at Hanger Lane on my 70 hour assessment... Not heard of that - wot's a 70-hour assessment? Do you get any grub time? ;D ;D ;D. My "assessment" at Northfields was less than 30 minutes and consisted of a Hounslow & back, during which time the driver and DI mostly ignored me (even when doing my Westinghouse at Hounslow Central) and spent most of the time discussing a certain lady ticket collector who was obviously very well known to both of them. Perhaps "assessment" today means something else.
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Post by james66526 on Jul 23, 2010 5:01:17 GMT
Hi mate. The assessment itself isn't 70 hours long!! I'm not *that* overworked and underpayed . With my mainline training I had to do 70 hours of driving out on the main with an assessment at 35 hours and the final assessment was done once I completed 70 hours driving!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 10:23:03 GMT
During my initial driving course on slam-dor electrics on one of my 'minder driver' trips I had a signal go back to red in front of me near Basingstoke. That was my realisation that adrenalin could be brown! As for wrong routes, they n-e-v-e-r happen on the national network......... ;D
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