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Post by uzairjubilee on Jun 3, 2010 9:06:52 GMT
Hi all.
I've had a massive London Underground map stuck up on my bedroom wall for years now. I only just realised that the North London Line it has on it shows the service running from Richmond to Broad Street - which is right next to Liverpool Sreet.
Now there's probably a thread about this somewhere but meh..
1) Until when did the NLL run Canonbury - Dalston Junction - Broad Street?
2) Why did this operation stop?
3) Broad Street? :S
Thanks,
Uzair
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 9:16:04 GMT
1985 is when Broad Street shut it closed because of lack of passengers; it truly was a deserted place - hard to believe it was in the centre of London!
Xerces Fobe
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 3, 2010 9:31:38 GMT
Wonkypedia - I suppose it had been shut for nearly 10 years by the time you were born.  Mind you, I only just about remember it, great big cavernous and empty place. A far cry from the glory days of the North London when there were two signalboxes at Broad Street. I think I've got most of the NLL diagrams from 1907/08 lurking on this machine. I shall have to go and have a furkle in the directories.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jun 3, 2010 12:23:38 GMT
Broad Street station was closed and demolished so that the Broadgate Ice Rink could be built ;D
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Post by mikebuzz on Jun 3, 2010 14:07:11 GMT
Broad Street was structurally unsound after war time bomb damage. It needed an expensive upgrade but the service was very poorly used after being run down over so many years and inner London seeing a big drop in population after the war. Before the war it was heavily used. The section from Dalston to c. Shoreditch was being considered for a future Chelsea-Hackney line and the city wanted the Broad Street site from BR for an expansion of the square mile.
It had been suggested earlier that Broad Street and Liverpool Street could be merged.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 1:41:19 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 4, 2010 6:45:16 GMT
That's really good. Liking this!  |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jun 4, 2010 11:35:02 GMT
Oh right now I get it. Awesome.
Those are some ace pictures there.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 11:55:12 GMT
Truly superb pictures of 'Ripper Street'. I showed the RM article to one of my work collegues who used to be based at Broad Street and he was mightily impressed! I have some slides I took at Broad Street in the early 80s. If I could use my home 'pooter I'd scan them! I do remember it being particularly bleak and desolate for the middle of London. I also had a large bump on my head as a result of trying to lean out of the window on a 501........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 12:28:43 GMT
Absolutely fantastic photos - love them all, especially the one of the (green) GEC train.
Indeed Broad Street was 'dead' in the daytime. Of Underground interest is that until the closure of what remained of the main station, the upper level lift landing remained there for all to see, complete with wooden doors and tiling on the surrounding walls. This linked Broad Street with the Central London platforms but were withdrawn many years ago - probably pre WW2.
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Post by mrjrt on Jun 4, 2010 13:04:05 GMT
Broad Street was structurally unsound after war time bomb damage. It needed an expensive upgrade but the service was very poorly used after being run down over so many years and inner London seeing a big drop in population after the war. Before the war it was heavily used. The section from Dalston to c. Shoreditch was being considered for a future Chelsea-Hackney line and the city wanted the Broad Street site from BR for an expansion of the square mile. It had been suggested earlier that Broad Street and Liverpool Street could be merged. I think it's a real shame the opportunity wasn't taken to expand Liverpool St. Even if you took the fullest extent of possible expansion, the station would have still been so deep that the Broadgate buildings could have been built in the air rights with little loss to their capacity. The West Anglia lines could then have had their own terminus, freeing the existing station for the Great Eastern lines. |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 4, 2010 15:30:13 GMT
The Richmond to Broad Street service ended in 1985, when the trains were diverted to North Woolwich. However, there was a peak hour service from Watford Junction (via Primrose Hill) which continued after this. The main Broad Street station building was demolished at the end of 1985, but they kept one platform open for the remaining services. In 1986, they built a spur line which connected the NLL to the Liverpool Street line, and once this was available for use, the remaining trains were diverted there, meaning final closure for Broad Street and Dalston Junction. www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/broad_street/index.shtmlLoads of information on the above link. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 17:50:16 GMT
I am surprised nobody mentioned the Dalston-Broad St. 70's BR cab ride with "funkadelic music" posted on YouTube ( ) and mentioned previously elsewhere on this site. Kinda grainy but nice to compare with the newly opened section of ELL now. |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 4, 2010 18:53:55 GMT
I am surprised nobody mentioned the Dalston-Broad St. 70's BR cab ride with "funkadelic music" posted on YouTube ( ) and mentioned previously elsewhere on this site. Kinda grainy but nice to compare with the newly opened section of ELL now. Yeah, forgot about that one, cheers for posting it. However, it was filmed in the early 80's, as the NatWest tower was not fully built until around 1980 - 1981. I remember watching it being built, as I had a good view from where I lived at the time. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jun 4, 2010 20:28:28 GMT
DMUs also used to terminate in Broad Street, off the GNR, and also I think there were Brush Type 2 (Class 31) hauled suburban stock trains?
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Jun 4, 2010 20:52:51 GMT
Certainly were....I believe from Welwyn and Gordon Hill.
This was in addition to those that went down the Widened Lines to Moorgate.
Incidentally,in the "interregnum" period,after the closure of Broad Street proper,but before the final withdrawal of all services on the line,the single-platform terminus was a temporary platform (rather like the one at Croxley Green) at (and I think called) Worship Street.
I went to the old Broad Street Station a couple of times,and it was cavernous and deserted and very neglected.Trees grew between some platforms,and the Cafe still had a Festival of Britain transfer on its door.......
The Graham Road Curve from the NLL to the GE lines in Hackney was provided as a "suitable replacement" for the Broad Street services,and was supposed to take the Watford trains in peak hours to Liverpool Street.....did these trains ever actually run? And for how long....?
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Post by superteacher on Jun 4, 2010 23:23:46 GMT
Certainly were....I believe from Welwyn and Gordon Hill. This was in addition to those that went down the Widened Lines to Moorgate. Incidentally,in the "interregnum" period,after the closure of Broad Street proper,but before the final withdrawal of all services on the line,the single-platform terminus was a temporary platform (rather like the one at Croxley Green) at (and I think called) Worship Street. I went to the old Broad Street Station a couple of times,and it was cavernous and deserted and very neglected.Trees grew between some platforms,and the Cafe still had a Festival of Britain transfer on its door....... The Graham Road Curve from the NLL to the GE lines in Hackney was provided as a "suitable replacement" for the Broad Street services,and was supposed to take the Watford trains in peak hours to Liverpool Street.....did these trains ever actually run? And for how long....? The Graham Road curve was indeed used - I travelled over it once on a Watford to Liverpool Street train. They ended in 1992, which is also when Primrose Hill station called. As for the single platform at Broad Street, it was never officially called Worship Street - the single platform was actually the northern end of one of the Broad Street platforms, although by that time, the station buildings and remaining platforms had been demolished. |
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Post by nickf on Jun 5, 2010 6:20:31 GMT
I have a vague memory of fourth rail electrification there at one point.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 5, 2010 8:56:01 GMT
Most of North London was electrified with four rails once. This is because the original stock built by Oerlikon and Siemens from 1914 was powered with 2 electric rails. The next batch of class 501s was also built on this principle. They were converted in 1971 to 3rd rail with initial mixed results! These photos of Primrose Hill show the fourth rail in place www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/primrose_hill/index.shtml |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2010 13:10:00 GMT
1985 is when Broad Street shut it closed because of lack of passengers; it truly was a deserted place - hard to believe it was in the centre of London! I expect it would be very heavily used were it still open today. The growth of passenger numbers and use of the railways in London has really expanded beyond all recognition in recent times. If the Broad Street line could have held out a few more years ... |
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Post by 21146 on Jun 5, 2010 15:38:10 GMT
Hmm, Broad Street as the flagship terminus of London Overground?
Meanwhile at Highbury & Islington I see platform 7 now abuts platform 2!
Given that LU recently replaced most or all of its 1960s-80s signage there, one would have thought that joined-up thinking at TFL would have brought about platform renumbering in a more logical series.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 5, 2010 15:44:38 GMT
Did you use the word logical? ;D
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Post by North End on Jun 5, 2010 17:32:40 GMT
Hmm, Broad Street as the flagship terminus of London Overground? Meanwhile at Highbury & Islington I see platform 7 now abuts platform 2! Given that LU recently replaced most or all of its 1960s-80s signage there, one would have thought that joined-up thinking at TFL would have brought about platform renumbering in a more logical series. There's more to renumbering platforms than changing signage. All of the signalling and layout plan documentation needs to be amended, diagrams need changing and possibly computer software needs updating. All of which is costly and possibly difficult. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2010 19:00:04 GMT
Most of North London was electrified with four rails once. This is because the original stock built by Oerlikon and Siemens from 1914 was powered with 2 electric rails. The next batch of class 501s was also built on this principle. They were converted in 1971 to 3rd rail with initial mixed results! All of the LNW electrification (Euston & Broad Street to Watford and Richmond, also WLR) was four rail, to Underground Group standards, for through working to Earls Court, and of the Bakerloo line. Stock was built to suit! |
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Post by orienteer on Jun 6, 2010 12:31:32 GMT
Old enough to remember using the Oerlikon trains (pre mid 1950s)! Lived in Highbury, often took the NLL to Kew Gardens for a Sunday outing.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 6, 2010 16:45:33 GMT
1985 is when Broad Street shut it closed because of lack of passengers; it truly was a deserted place - hard to believe it was in the centre of London! I expect it would be very heavily used were it still open today. The growth of passenger numbers and use of the railways in London has really expanded beyond all recognition in recent times. If the Broad Street line could have held out a few more years ... Possibly - it's hard to know if the drop in passengers was down to the running down of services. The Watford trains (the last to use Broad Street) were diverted into Liverpool Street, but only lasted 6 more years in a time when passenger numbers, on the whole, were at a historic high. There are many more offices to generate rail traffic in the area now than back in the early 80's, although most of those were built on the site of Broad Street, sa bit of a catch 22 there! |
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Post by mikebuzz on Jun 6, 2010 22:46:11 GMT
The areas the NLL served were very densely populated before the war. By the 1980's the population had dropped dramatically. There were other factors too. The Northern line extensions to Edgware then High Barnet took traffic from the old Edgware and High Barnet Broad Street service that was popular. The line became very run down and the service very poor and this undoubtedly contributed to further decline. I think the bomb damage meant some off Broad Street had to be closed off long before it was demolished, including most of the 5 platforms. This might also explain why service levels reduced. I'm sure a rebuilt Broad Street would be well used today. Who knows what LOROL would have been like if it still existed. I think it's a real shame the opportunity wasn't taken to expand Liverpool St. Even if you took the fullest extent of possible expansion, the station would have still been so deep that the Broadgate buildings could have been built in the air rights with little loss to their capacity. The West Anglia lines could then have had their own terminus, freeing the existing station for the Great Eastern lines. The growth in passenger traffic was really not foreseen. Keeping Broad Street open or merging it with Liverpool Street (though the levels were different) could have alleviated Liverpool Street and Euston. Great video and layout. Ripper Street - what a great name for a great layout. |
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Post by johnbee on Jun 7, 2010 22:35:01 GMT
In the late 1979s/1980s I used to commute from Hatch End to Broad Street. There was one train on Monday to Friday mornings that reached Broad Street via the NLL. Liked to travel on this train because of its unusual routing. When this train arrived at Kensal Rise it was customary for quite a few passengers to leave the train but others seeing Kensal in the station name stayed on until Brondesbury Park when a few more left the train. As there was no return train from Broad Street to Watford Junction can somebody explain why the morning train used this route. In my younger days travelled on the Oerlikon stock but when I commuted to Broad Street it was by Slam Door stock (don't know the proper classification). When one of these trains had been standing all day in Broad Street Station, and it had been raining, it was inadvisable to choose a window seat as the chances were that when the train started there would be a torrent of water come over the top of the door.
I can remember Broad Street being servied by trains to ex-GNR stations and seem to recollect that after the WW2 there was a train/s to Tring.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2010 22:54:16 GMT
I can remember Broad Street being servied by trains to ex-GNR stations and seem to recollect that after the WW2 there was a train/s to Tring. Trains from Broad St to the GN lasted until the GN suburban electrification in the mid 1970s. Pre WW2 they were NLR/LNWR/LMSR trains running on to the GN/LNER; when resumed after the war this was reversed, so they were LNER/BR(E) trains. Trains from Broad Street to Tring (and elsewhere on the LNW beyond Watford?) lasted until the full electric service on the Premier Line was introduced in April 1966 (all trains from Euston went electric in Jan, so they were last 'non-electric' services there). At one point in the Edwardian era there had been a through service from BSt to Birmingham New Street. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jun 7, 2010 22:58:59 GMT
From PSUL for 1964:
LONDON MIDLAND REGION
Dalston Junction - Devons Road (3m. 52ch.) <closed by 1964>
4-55 a.m. Broad Street—Devons Road
4-00 a.m. Devons Road—Broad Street
5-15 a.m. SUN Devons Road—Broad Street
That's an interesting service!
I assume that the Watford-Broad Street service just mentioned used the Willesden Suburban Junction - Kensal Green Junction line? I was once told, as mentioned in the past, that the Watford DC Line - NLL connection was the 'City Loop' but we now know that was not correct.
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