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Post by tubebitz on May 1, 2010 19:40:57 GMT
Following clearance from the site admins, I can now post this. 11 1972Mk1 coaches have recently been despatched from Acton for scrap, and I have access to them before they are shredded. I'm therefore offering various bits and bobs for sale via eBay to anyone who may be interested, collectors, preservationists or otherwise. Below is a list of eBay links to what is currently for sale; cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270579605586&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - General, Unit Log Book U.3202 3202's Logbook still up for grabs... Ended Auctions - Thank You; cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270570968658&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT - Interiors, Line of Route Maps, Northern Line cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270572599810&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - Interiors, Passcom/Alarm Panel cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270572602052&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - Interiors, Guards Panels, Pair cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270572603429&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - Driving Cab, Westinghouse Channel/Crew/Train No. Unit cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270572688341&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT - Emergency Equipment, Flags |
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on May 1, 2010 23:21:38 GMT
That's so sad the remaining mark1s are going. Which cars are being scrapped?
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Post by tubebitz on May 1, 2010 23:45:03 GMT
They really are bad though, they'd been quite heavily robbed before they came in but some stuff was left behind. The exteriors are graffiti covered and the interiors are covered in black dust with rotten floors ect...
The 11 coaches came in from Acton Works, I don't have the coach numbers to hand but I'm sure somebody might have a list?
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metman
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Post by metman on May 2, 2010 0:15:00 GMT
Are these cars going to/at Eastleigh? Are they all unpainted (bar the graffiti) or are some of the cars in blue, red and white?
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Post by tubebitz on May 2, 2010 17:54:38 GMT
Already there being prepared for scrapping. One car is in the LU blue/red/white.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on May 2, 2010 18:03:19 GMT
There goes the Bakerloo spare train!!
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Post by ghostofjk on May 2, 2010 20:05:33 GMT
Were those trains still operational? From what you say they weren't in a fit state for passenger service, but did they actually work?
I ask because I was waiting for a train at Acton Town once, and saw a graffiti-covered train come to the top of the line into the works, then go back down again, presumably on a shunting move of some sort. It was in such a state, it was like seeing some deep-sea monster, festooned with seaweed, briefly poke its head above the surface of the water, then plunge down into the depths again. Grotesque, almost.
Also: why are those trains in Acton kept there? And why are they being scrapped now, as opposed to any time in the last however-many years? Just a topic that makes me curious...
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Post by tubebitz on May 3, 2010 13:12:14 GMT
I doubt they'd actually worked for some time, all the cabs had been stripped of operational parts, along with bits missing from under-seating areas and the underframes. However 9 of them did move by rail, obviously not under their own power though.
Presumably they are being scrapped now as they have given up various operational parts to other stock and are no longer working units. Plus you have the victoria line tipping out to the scrapyards shortly (according to LUL the 67s will be scrapped) so i think space might be an issue.
I have heard roumours of a 59 and 62 stock heading for scrap shortly also..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2010 18:28:15 GMT
Oh, don't tempt me! I already have half a 1959DM sitting in the garage! ;D
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Post by tubebitz on May 3, 2010 19:43:59 GMT
I'll be seeking to do the same (eBay) with any other stock that comes in ;D
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Post by mowat on May 3, 2010 20:11:40 GMT
Makes me wonder how long it will be before the scrappers get hold of the 8 Standard stock cars at Acton.
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metman
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Post by metman on May 3, 2010 20:29:22 GMT
Not long by the sounds of it  Is there much left of them anyway? |
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Post by tubebitz on May 3, 2010 20:54:26 GMT
Makes me wonder how long it will be before the scrappers get hold of the 8 Standard stock cars at Acton. Soon...  |
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Post by mowat on May 4, 2010 23:06:51 GMT
Shame when you consider that one of the ex IoW trailer cars at Acton Works dates from 1923, so virtually qualifies for pre-grouping status!
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Post by alrispoli on May 9, 2010 10:38:25 GMT
I doubt they'd actually worked for some time, all the cabs had been stripped of operational parts, along with bits missing from under-seating areas and the underframes. However 9 of them did move by rail, obviously not under their own power though. Presumably they are being scrapped now as they have given up various operational parts to other stock and are no longer working units. Plus you have the victoria line tipping out to the scrapyards shortly (according to LUL the 67s will be scrapped) so i think space might be an issue. I have heard roumours of a 59 and 62 stock heading for scrap shortly also.. Not much 59ts about to be scrapped, if any in fact. The 62ts left consists of the sandite train and a depot pilot I believe. Both roles easily performed by 67ts. Anything that could be reused will have been taken for the Bakerloo's fleet of refurbed 72ts no doubt and from seeing pictures of these old girls being moved around at Eastleigh, they are well past their use by date! It's nothing short of a traversty that we don't have a Mark 1 72ts and a 59/62ts available for use on galas and other events (such as the recent events which have used Siddons etc...) I gather even the Aldwych unit now has a corporate front end! NB. Actually the Cravens group I believe are working on getting a 62ts operational again so it's just the 72ts which is a shame! The original alluminium exteriors and original interiors are missed from the current network! |
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Post by t697 on May 9, 2010 15:26:55 GMT
It's nothing short of a travesty that we don't have a Mark 1 72ts.....[/quote]
Alternatively, some of us who had to sort the engineering, maintain them or actually drive them thought that 72TS was just 67TS with 5 more mistakes!
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Post by alrispoli on May 9, 2010 15:51:24 GMT
So what is/was so wrong with 67/72ts then??
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metman
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Post by metman on May 9, 2010 16:43:52 GMT
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Post by 21146 on May 9, 2010 18:27:44 GMT
The 67/72/73TS family is the "missing link" between the 35/38/49/56/59/62TS design and today's modern 95/96TS* and it is indeed a shame that none of these trains with their once-familiar unpainted exterior/curved windscreen look will remain operationally to recall an important period of LT history. The unpainted look was very of its time in the 1960s - think of the way warplanes, buses, fire engines and ambulances all flirted with unpainted, or more usually semi-unpainted, liveries. LT had its "silver lady" RM664 and ever BR ran one of the 4-PEP prototypes in aluminum. All very space age and redolent of rocketry.
* I shall regard the 92TS as an misguided experiment!
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metman
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Post by metman on May 9, 2010 18:51:01 GMT
The 72mk1 is still going in Aldwych, albeit with a red front. That can be removed I would have thought. I really hope an 8 car 67ts will be saved and run from time to time. It has great historical value.
There are still all the 72mk2s about so maybe one of them can be stripped down. There is also 3016 in preservation too.
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Post by 21146 on May 9, 2010 19:49:05 GMT
I would have thought the Aldwych 72TS Mk1 was the only realistic chance of retaining an operational example of this family of trains.
The 67TS are all in painted condition and do not have traditional deadman's handles in operational cabs. These would need to be converted to proper TBCs for operation. I also doubt use on the Victoria Line could happen after the service converts to 100% 09TS with new signalling. The 72TS also has an original interior finish which has all but disappeared through the refurb programme.
Yes, the 67TS do operate without deadman's (but with two T/OPs) to and from Acton Works, but these are empty trips. Of course there was the "Auto-Tube Rambler" with passengers but can anyone imagine this passing an LU "risk assessment" these days? (Mind you, steam locos on the Met didn't have deadman's handles either.)
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 9, 2010 20:02:18 GMT
The 67TS do not have traditional deadman's handles in operational cabs. Some of the non-operational cabs are ex-72ts. What modificatoins were made to them to run with the 67ts, and can it be reversed? Historically, I think the ATO system makes 67ts much more significant than the 72: I read somewhere that technically the 72 was actually simlilar to the previous 59/62 generation, (even the double-length side windows had been pioneered on the 1960 stock). They even used reconditioned guards controls from 49stock. The fact that all extant 67 and 72 stock has been painted is not an insuperable problem - paint can be removed. |
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Post by alrispoli on May 10, 2010 7:46:44 GMT
But how much of the refurb can be undone? There were mods to the vent panels above the windows, changes to moquette, removal of strap grip hangers, removal of guard panels (67ts only!!), the livery painting, what else??
As for removing the paint, would this leave a nice shiny aluminium finish? Doubtful!
Are there any groups looking to snap up a 67ts or two?
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metman
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Post by metman on May 10, 2010 8:38:10 GMT
Do any non painted trains still have a nice shinny aluminium finish? Those that have not been refurbished have been graffitied heavily.
Perhaps some now strap hangers can be made?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on May 10, 2010 11:44:42 GMT
I would have thought the Aldwych 72TS Mk1 was the only realistic chance of retaining an operational example of this family of trains. The 67TS are all in painted condition and do not have traditional deadman's handles in operational cabs. These would need to be converted to proper TBCs for operation. I also doubt use on the Victoria Line could happen after the service converts to 100% 09TS with new signalling. The 72TS also has an original interior finish which has all but disappeared through the refurb programme. Yes, the 67TS do operate without deadman's (but with two T/OPs) to and from Acton Works, but these are empty trips. Of course there was the "Auto-Tube Rambler" with passengers but can anyone imagine this passing an LU "risk assessment" these days? (Mind you, steam locos on the Met didn't have deadman's handles either.) Yes the Aldwych unit (3229) is the only 72mk1 stock now in both original condition and operational. If paint can't be stripped off, there's always the option to paint over in Silver, like the Standard stock trailers that ran with the 1960 stock. There's unit 3215 at London Road depot, not sure what condition this is in, but bound to require considerable work in order to make it operational. The only other unit is 3511 at Hainault, but that is in a very bad state and probably beyond economic repair now. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 14:38:28 GMT
Well, you could ask some vandals to come down and etch away the paint, they seem to like doing that  |
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metman
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Post by metman on May 10, 2010 17:01:12 GMT
Yes, was thinking that!
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Post by alrispoli on May 10, 2010 21:14:25 GMT
Have all the examples at Pigs Bay now been scrapped do we know?
Having seen pictures of 3511 at Hainault it's a wonder that it's not been scrapped on site already as it's shell like to be kind to it!!
The Aldwych unit is the best chance there is to preserve an original 72ts but is there enough interest?
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Post by miff on May 11, 2010 20:34:14 GMT
I hope the Aldwych unit is not preserved in the near future. Better to leave it in service, in its present role and location.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on May 12, 2010 21:37:45 GMT
Totally agree about the 72s, although personally I thought the 73s were just slightly more aesthetically pleasing. The vents above the windows being more symetrical.
Its practically criminal about the standard stock cars at Acton Works. The O/P sounded like he had inside info on their future. Are TfL looking to scrap them, or has a contract been tendered already for their removal?
Its like the first intended TRC car; if that hadnt have gone to Booths in 2006 it still would have been possible to make an entirely authentic 7 car 38ts train, and the increase of revenue gained from 42% extra cap. Why can't TfL be more interested in their heritage like other subways around the world? NY for example.
I've said it before, but if those standard stock cars were from the big railway, there would be dedicated websites/groups/fundraisers out there to save them.
Damn shame.
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Is there much left of them anyway?
