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Post by bringbackcrouchhil on Nov 29, 2009 23:43:10 GMT
There are a few phrases in English that can break the spirit of the sunniest of optimist. Included amongst these are:
'We need to talk...' 'You're call is very important to us...' 'Blackwell Tunnel...' 'And now for the weather report'
But worse amongst these is 'due to a signal failure'...
What actually is a 'signal failure' and if a signal has 'failed' why can the trains still run at all?
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Nov 30, 2009 2:21:05 GMT
On the operating side, there are basically 7 reasons for a signal "remaining at danger": For signals that work automatically (ie, no intervention from a signaller):1 - train in section 2 - metal obstruction on the track 3 - broken rail 4 - equipment failure 5 - flooding For signals that work semi-automatically (ie, usually operated by a signaller):Same as 1- 5 above, plus: 6 - lever in the normal position (signal correctly showing a red aspect) 7 - lever in the reverse position (signal had been cleared to green and has since correctly returned to danger (red) following the passage of a train - the lever has to be replaced to normal then reversed again to clear the signal) As you can probably tell, reasons 2 - 5 are the ones that will be treated as a failure. Most are self explanatory, but "equipment failure" is the one that can cover pretty much any single element of the whole signalling system. It could be a thin piece of metal joining two track circuits together (bits of plastic are used in track joints to separate the signalling track circuits), a blown fuse, a blown bulb in the signal head itself, a train stop failure, a part of the electronic or mechanical interlocking failed, a cable fault, computer (or other type of automatic routing equipment) fault, power failure - quite literally anything associated with the signalling system. The one thing you never hear of is a points failure. The simple reason for that is that a points failure will inevitably mean that a signal cannot 'read over' the problem points and thus as a consequence cannot be cleared; so ultimately the problem becomes a signal failure and is thus covered by equipment failure. and if a signal has 'failed' why can the trains still run at all? We have a number of rules & procedures that have to be followed to the letter when passing a signal remaining at danger. It all depends on the location, time (peak or off peak), day of the week, signal type and exact reason for failure as to whether it can be easily managed with a fairly decent frequency of service or whether it'll crucify the service or even cause a full suspension. It really does depend on a number of factors unique to each failure scenario.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 17:26:51 GMT
90% of all signal failures are due to a track circuit problem and usually it is a blown fuse. The the next 5% are point failures and the rest are relay or non-safety circuits failures. but sometimes when the public get the PA saying " due to signalling problems in the ***** area " this could mean anything. they even make the same PA when the signal op has made a mistake when the system has not failed but either they or the programme machine has.
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Nov 30, 2009 17:44:03 GMT
but sometimes when the public get the PA saying " due to signalling problems in the ***** area " this could mean anything. they even make the same PA when the signal op has made a mistake when the system has not failed but either they or the programme machine has. We've had this come up before, and I'm sure it's been said quite recently, though putting links in this instance isn't necessary... The only time the phrase "signalling problem" is used is where there has a been a suspected SPAD, or other suspected human error. In all other cases, including any type of equipment failure, the correct phrase is "signal failure". It's a subtle difference to those not in the know. I can perhaps understand why the likes of those of you who maintain the signalling system get the hump when, in your view, you see the signalling system being blamed (ie, "signalling problem" is being put out) - but the bottom line is that a delay is occurring and it is ultimately because of the signalling system not allowing trains to proceed normally.
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Post by citysig on Nov 30, 2009 22:29:19 GMT
On top of Colin's note about points failures being classed as signal failures, some of the older terms we used such as "points failure" or "track failure" were withdrawn and substituted with the all-round "signal failure."
This avoid causing alarm to those not in the know. It came about around the same time as the accidents at Hatfield (track [structure] failure) and Potters Bar (points [structure] failure).
The trouble is, to a customer who has travelled for years, and not fully in the know, our point and track reliability has increased significantly, whereas our signals have become much more unreliable in the same timescale ;D
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Post by bringbackcrouchhil on Nov 30, 2009 23:13:42 GMT
I thought it was generally regarded that signal failures have reduced over time.
So when the Victoria / Jubilee line are having their signals replaced does this actually mean that antiquated old copper wires are being replaced by sophisticated, elegant, Ursula Andress in Dr. No cables which will never short circuit or blow?
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Post by citysig on Dec 1, 2009 9:20:27 GMT
I thought it was generally regarded that signal failures have reduced over time. What I meant was, where the travelling public used to be given a whole array of various failures, nowadays with everything put mostly down to signalling failures, the outsider could be forgiven for thinking that our track and points no longer fail, but the signals still do. Having said that though, I notice this morning the Met Line is shown on the Tfl website as having delays due to a "signal failure at Harrow-on-the-Hill and a faulty track at Aldgate." That's s**s law for you (or a conspiracy by someone who visits here ;D )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 14:35:49 GMT
The "faulty track" one really gets up my nose. They make it sound like a faulty TV that you're taking back to get replaced. I don't understand why they don't just call it a track defect, at least people would understand what the problem is associated with.
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