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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 20:16:09 GMT
ISTR 8 car trains running for North Weald air display in the late 1960's! North Weald is a 5 car platform! |
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Post by The Tram Man on Oct 29, 2009 20:38:43 GMT
ISTR 8 car trains running for North Weald air display in the late 1960's! Pics anywhere? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 22:10:38 GMT
New track, new trackbed as the track area was littered with rabbit holes, new signalling. lengthened platforms and new ticketing machines and gates. I can't see this hapening in the current or future climate. This. It's really not necessary. It was loss-making before it closed and it would probably make losses if it was re-opened. Even it was double-tracked and turned into a fully-fledged extension of the Central line, trains don't always even run as far as Epping now. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Oct 29, 2009 23:16:55 GMT
Who wants to go to epping anyway? since the bus garage closed there, I saw little point in going there much after 1968! Oh, except for a ride on an RF on the 250 from romford.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 29, 2009 23:39:43 GMT
, trains don't always even run as far as Epping now. Trains didn't always go to the rural idyll of Epping when the extension finally opened out that far! I was reading the opening WTT (6:25/9/49) last night. ;D |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Oct 30, 2009 0:16:25 GMT
The thing is a lot of people seem to be seeing any re-extension as being a fully fledged affair when it doesnt necessarily have to be. There are many options which could help the viability, and quite a few organisations are keen to see it happen for various reasons, at least in principal. Local council, local developers, local residents, perhaps a few of the preservation groups. All have significant problems to overcome, true, but if groups could work together an improved case might be found.
I'm suprised that North Weald was only 5 cars long. Would this have been for both platforms? Presumably that means the passing loop would have had a similar restriction.
A long long while back on either here or TTF someone commented that the North Weald air show runs were 4 cars only and ran non stop from their origin.
A picture of 1992ts at North Weald was posted on here not that long ago btw; can't find it atm but its out there!
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Post by superteacher on Oct 30, 2009 0:48:15 GMT
New track, new trackbed as the track area was littered with rabbit holes, new signalling. lengthened platforms and new ticketing machines and gates. I can't see this hapening in the current or future climate. This. It's really not necessary. It was loss-making before it closed and it would probably make losses if it was re-opened. Even it was double-tracked and turned into a fully-fledged extension of the Central line, trains don't always even run as far as Epping now. The service to Epping with the current timetable is better than it's ever been. In fact, with one or two setbacks, it has steadily improved over the years. At one time, it had a 40 min through service to London (off peak) with a shuttle to Loughton. Even in the 90's, the off peak service to Epping was 20 mins. So the argument that the Ongar line wouldn't be used because less trains run to Epping is not a valid one. As for loss making, many rail lines make losses. They are not there to make money, despite what some politicians think! |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 30, 2009 1:47:14 GMT
Designate it a community rail project perhaps?  As time goes on population will only increase, and with it demand. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Oct 30, 2009 8:29:54 GMT
62mph on the Ongar branch? That would be fun, considering the state of the track!! Yes, apart from the 60/62 stock, my clearest memory of the Ongar branch was the most lively ride I've ever experienced on an Underground train. |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Nov 14, 2009 13:11:35 GMT
ISTR 8 car trains running for North Weald air display in the late 1960's! Pics anywhere? Not specifically of that, but there is an interesting bit to read with pictures HERE with regard to the main topic in hand. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 17:00:57 GMT
Re the earlier note about 1992s going to Ongar, there were in fact four test trips, as follows:
13/07/93 - Units 033-030-032-035
28/07/93 - Units 005-007
05/10/93 - Units 017-014-016-019
02/11/93 - Units 107-104-106-109
The four-car run comprised two units that hadn't entered service - 005 and 007 went into service on 30/09/94.
With the stopping mark at Ongar being away from the end brick wall (post "Moorgate" measures), the west end of the 8-car train was close by the 0.2km post.
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Post by ruislip on Nov 14, 2009 17:54:11 GMT
This. It's really not necessary. It was loss-making before it closed and it would probably make losses if it was re-opened. Even it was double-tracked and turned into a fully-fledged extension of the Central line, trains don't always even run as far as Epping now. The service to Epping with the current timetable is better than it's ever been. In fact, with one or two setbacks, it has steadily improved over the years. At one time, it had a 40 min through service to London (off peak) with a shuttle to Loughton. Even in the 90's, the off peak service to Epping was 20 mins. So the argument that the Ongar line wouldn't be used because less trains run to Epping is not a valid one. As for loss making, many rail lines make losses. They are not there to make money, despite what some politicians think! I have a WTT from 1986, and half of the trains using the Epping branch off-peak reversed at Loughton. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 18:20:35 GMT
I can certainly remember a trip to Epping in the early 90's. Certainly there was a 20 minute shuttle to Loughton. IIRC, every third train was a through service towards Central London.
I can say, that in the last five years, Peak Hour services to the eastern reaches have got considerably busier, especially with regards to Epping, local people are complaining that commuters use side streets as the stations' overflow car park. Invaribly, the car park is full way before 9am!
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Nov 14, 2009 18:28:55 GMT
Can anyone comment on the runing times along the branch? Also can anyone hazzard a guess as what it would be for a station at Coopersale?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 18:31:38 GMT
I think running times were something like 11-14 minutes. I'm not sure exactly, as I haven't got any references immediately to hand. 'mrfs' is the man to ask about timetables and suchlike!
Are we referring to a possible financial cost of a station at Coopersale?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 18:41:48 GMT
I can certainly remember a trip to Epping in the early 90's. Certainly there was a 20 minute shuttle to Loughton. IIRC, every third train was a through service towards Central London. In the 90s every other train reversed at Loughton giving a 10 minute service as far as Loughton and a 20 minute service to Epping, no Epping to Loughton shuttle unless the service was screwed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 20:57:51 GMT
My visit might have been on one of those days. |
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Post by eorsignals on Nov 16, 2009 14:19:41 GMT
New track, new trackbed as the track area was littered with rabbit holes, new signalling. lengthened platforms and new ticketing machines and gates. I can't see this hapening in the current or future climate. Dear All (and Jim)... sorry to report otherwise, but it IS happening, and right now! Have a look at our website: www.eorailway.co.uk Track being fixed, station layouts re-laid & remodelled, station buildings restored, signal systems installed... North Weald Platform (both Plat 1 & 2) were only 4 car. I say "were", as Plat 1 is currently being made longer... just one element of the works program as we get ready for steam and heritage diesels. Also NW platform heights are being re-corrected for "std" / mainline stock, bay platform re-laid... With regard to Coopersale - who knows what the future holds, we are concentrating on getting Ongar & North Weald operational, before (as happened / happening with many other heritage railways) we can look towards extending and improving the service. Our aim is to restore a regular service to Epping (but we would obviously require assistance with making this happen), and with more volunteers helping, the sooner this will happen. I am keen to encourage more people from the local communities & LU backgrounds to get involved. Everyone of all ages / abilities / skills is welcome to come and be a part of our friendly team, like all heritage railways, its direction and fortunes are guided by those that come down and take part. Simon EORVS Secretary (P.S. As you might be able to tell, Pilot Developments ceeced to have any involvement in the branch from 2007!).  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 14:26:20 GMT
New track, new trackbed as the track area was littered with rabbit holes, new signalling. lengthened platforms and new ticketing machines and gates. I can't see this hapening in the current or future climate. Dear All (and Jim)... sorry to report otherwise, but it IS happening, and right now! Have a look at our website: www.eorailway.co.uk Track being fixed, station layouts re-laid & remodelled, station buildings restored, signal systems installed... Good luck with the project, I know it has been on and off for a few years now. But my post was in regard to running a through Central line service which won't happen. |
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Post by The Tram Man on Nov 16, 2009 16:30:08 GMT
New Q: Does anybodey have any airphotos/maps of the Ongar track layout during its time as a LU station?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 16:33:16 GMT
I think this diagramme should cover it:
<<========[platform]=[end of track]
to epping
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Post by The Tram Man on Nov 16, 2009 16:59:20 GMT
And these(<<) would be what? It's for a modeling project btw.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 17:24:53 GMT
Marking track continoues in that direction btw, more scandinavians? |
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Post by eorsignals on Nov 16, 2009 17:50:13 GMT
And these(<<) would be what? It's for a modeling project btw. We have these on-file in our achieves... please email me via the EOR website |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 16, 2009 18:24:14 GMT
I think running times were something like 11-14 minutes. I'm not sure exactly, as I haven't got any references immediately to hand. 'mrfs' is the man to ask about timetables and suchlike! Just catching up on this topic....... I wrote something about this a couple of years ago; however on electrification the running times were: WB Ongar - Blake Hall 4½ min, Blake Hall - North Weald 4½ min, North Weald - Epping 5 min; EB Epping - North Weald 5 min, North Weald - Blake Hall 4 min, Blake Hall - Ongar 3½ min. On closure: WB Ongar - North Weald 8 min, North Weald - Epping 5½ min; EB Epping - North Weald 7½ min, North Weald - Epping 5½ min. WRT the staged starting of trains at North Weald, it is in paragraph 20 of Supp. to TC 42/57: When electric trains are scheduled to pass at North Weald, one will normally be booked to depart slightly later than the other. This arrangement is neessary in order to obviate the risk of an excessive load being imposed on Epping substation by the trains starting simultaneously.
The North Weald signalman must ensure that the first train to depart has reached the actual single line section before he lowers the starting signal for the second train. I have seen something similar elsewhere, but not the 1970 or 1984 working of trains books (Section 11 Appendix) - perhaps in the preamble to a WTT. EDIT: further details on the Ongar branch running times are here . I knew I'd find the thread if I looked hard enough! Since then I've acquired considerably more of the early Central WTTs.  |
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Post by underground2010 on Nov 30, 2009 18:00:03 GMT
Apparently, there are rumours the Ongar Branch will be re opened. I was at work the other day, and my dad, his mate and I were looking at an old railway map with all the old National Rail lines and some Tube lines and we was looking at the Epping to Ongar branch and my dads mate mentioned that the Ongar branch might be re opened. I don't know for sure though what's happening.  |
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Post by Chris M on Nov 30, 2009 21:56:32 GMT
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Post by eorsignals on Dec 8, 2009 13:48:59 GMT
Apparently, there are rumours the Ongar Branch will be re opened. I was at work the other day, and my dad, his mate and I were looking at an old railway map with all the old National Rail lines and some Tube lines and we was looking at the Epping to Ongar branch and my dads mate mentioned that the Ongar branch might be re opened. I don't know for sure though what's happening. Indeed "Underground2010", as posted, the branch is currently being re-opened, with our team of volunteers making good progress getting the infrastructure improvements in place. Regarding maps - You won't find us on NR maps, as the branch was LU operated from 1957 (though was only officially handed over "on paper" from BR in 1973). The branch was first included in LT map of 1939, but was still on LNER maps up to 1948. We are re-opening it as a heritage railway, with std stock / steam, diesel and DEMU operation, and always have a friendly welcome for new volunteers. Details on our website: www.eorailway.co.uk |
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