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Post by District Dave on Nov 19, 2007 16:29:13 GMT
As far as the speed control to W375 is concerned I certainly train to 25mph - I'm pretty sure that when it was first commissioned it was pretty well immediately clear that this was the max speed; it could be that it does drop at 30, but that it's too slow to allow for the closeness of the train!
It was placed due to an alleged compromised overlap on W375 I believe.
Bromley - by - Bow.....
Using my standard move off procedure where gaps are involved of remaining in Series until clear of the gap I don't have a problem (and tried it today with a heavily loaded train) loss of pilot light.
Happybunny - you seem to have a few issues with your training - can you please come and talk to me - I'd be interested to hear more, and to assist if I can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2007 18:42:57 GMT
As far as the speed control to W375 is concerned I certainly train to 25mph - I'm pretty sure that when it was first commissioned it was pretty well immediately clear that this was the max speed; It was certainly made clear to me on the first day it was commissioned and I tried to go past at 30... ;D And I also tell trainees to stick to 25, although you can get away with about 27. Unfortunately, like so many things on the District line, there seems to be an attitude of "it will just have to do". |
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Post by happybunny on Nov 20, 2007 19:21:28 GMT
Yeah I agree... I think I was told to do about 20-25 but when I hit it I purely forgot it was there... OK my mind probably wasn't 100% where it should be.. but I was defiantly watching the signal. The policeman is very easy to forget about
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 20, 2007 22:48:10 GMT
Some things never change: I've had an email from our old friend Q8 who drove the DR for some years:
"I can put folks mind at ease as WM4 has ALWAYS cleared before WM400 and has done so since the 1960s. As for the "kick" at Bromley-by-Bow, that too has been known about since 1958 and was even more noticeable with "R" stock as all cars were motored so you got a nice jolt 8 times when leaving. I was once told that it was something to do with track camber and the slight right hand curve that made adjustment of the juice rails a regular thing."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 15:44:10 GMT
WM4 would clear first aslong as there is nothing in ealing common e/b platform the idea of it is to get the train off the junction and move it up closer also checking the speed of the train
if there was something in ealing common platform then WM400 should clear first (if the inductor was working)
these speed control signals to not have a lever attached to it and do work like automatics (only one i know of that has a lever is EC600) but the selection of it is overridden if WM4 is clear
think of it as tower hill if you are going into the bay road EJ 100 checks the speed then if correct will automatically select EJ 1 rt2 but if the train is going straight though via EJ 1 rt1 then EJ 100 should be automatically cleared as there is no need to speed check the train
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 21, 2007 18:07:56 GMT
think of it as tower hill if you are going into the bay road EJ 100 checks the speed then if correct will automatically select EJ 1 rt2 but if the train is going straight though via EJ 1 rt1 then EJ 100 should be automatically cleared as there is no need to speed check the train If I had a pound for every time EJ100 speed checked me on the way to Upminster, I'd be long retired by now! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 19:02:19 GMT
shouldnt do colin only if the site is in Programme Only mode
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Post by c5 on Nov 21, 2007 20:02:26 GMT
That machine shouldn't be left in Programme Only mode!!!!
It is sometimes left in Programme to hold trains to time, even then the Home signals EJ1 rt1 and EJ2 come off in good time, I think the same as in First Come.
However at the moment it is left in First Come as the lever for the starter EJ3 has been permanently left in the reverse by Metronet to save any delays as it wasn't always clearing!
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 21, 2007 20:27:47 GMT
WM4 would clear first aslong as there is nothing in ealing common e/b platform the idea of it is to get the train off the junction and move it up closer also checking the speed of the train if there was something in ealing common platform then WM400 should clear first (if the inductor was working) these speed control signals to not have a lever attached to it and do work like automatics (only one i know of that has a lever is EC600) but the selection of it is overridden if WM4 is clear think of it as tower hill if you are going into the bay road EJ 100 checks the speed then if correct will automatically select EJ 1 rt2 but if the train is going straight though via EJ 1 rt1 then EJ 100 should be automatically cleared as there is no need to speed check the train Inductors were a problem a few years ago, I don't have any idea whether that may still be the case. I regularly changed inductor elements at Park Royal, Ealing Common, Acton and elsewhere for those circuits still working but there was a block on Inductor Amplifiers and none were to be drawn from stores. AIUI there was a technical issue and the later amps failed to meet CED standard so we were precluded from replacing defective amps. ISTR approaching Acton that WL103A or WL103B or possibly both had defective amps and relied instead upon delta track circuits and JRs where speed was to be checked. I dunno why but it always rained when I found myself flat on my back in the 4' or 6' changing inductor sections in the open! |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 21, 2007 20:37:18 GMT
That machine shouldn't be left in Programme Only mode!!!! It is sometimes left in Programme to hold trains to time, even then the Home signals EJ1 rt1 and EJ2 come off in good time, I think the same as in First Come. However at the moment it is left in First Come as the lever for the starter EJ3 has been permanently left in the reverse by Metronet to save any delays as it wasn't always clearing! I can't help saying that sounds typical of Metronet. Tube Lines would always endeavour to locate and repair any and all faults but Metronet never seemed to have the same level of resolve. Having said that the trouble with programme machines is their age and it is not so much that the PMCs are the problem as much as the local wiring and peripheral bits and pieces such as the time counters and co-incidence units. PMCs were great technology 50 years ago but they are life expired and could do with being replaced by computers and PLCs. Brian |
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Post by c5 on Nov 21, 2007 20:39:51 GMT
Don't let Tubelines off the hook! They still havent sorted out the timing at Ealing Broadway or the fact that Ealing Common is rubbish! The reason Metronet have done this at Tower Hill is so that they don't get an item for a delayed train. Of course now many trains leave early!  Which can be a pain off peak! It's a wonder that the kit used still just about works. A number of the more complicated functions of the PM machines like Auto reverse and some Storages no longer work. |
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TMBA
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Post by TMBA on Nov 21, 2007 21:30:04 GMT
Some things never change: I've had an email from our old friend Q8 who drove the DR for some years: "As for the "kick" at Bromley-by-Bow, that too has been known about since 1958 and was even more noticeable with "R" stock as all cars were motored so you got a nice jolt 8 times when leaving. I was once told that it was something to do with track camber and the slight right hand curve that made adjustment of the juice rails a regular thing." Thanks for the answer to the ORIGINAL question Phil about Bromley, I was wondering if it could be cured and the DMT's were just giving me a load of waffle as usual |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 22, 2007 3:11:00 GMT
Don't let Tubelines off the hook! They still havent sorted out the timing at Ealing Broadway or the fact that Ealing Common is rubbish! The reason Metronet have done this at Tower Hill is so that they don't get an item for a delayed train. Of course now many trains leave early! Which can be a pain off peak! It's a wonder that the kit used still just about works. A number of the more complicated functions of the PM machines like Auto reverse and some Storages no longer work. Well it's almost two and a half years since I retired so I can't say why Tube Lines are unable to keep the PMCs at Ealing Broadway going. It is one of the 'newer' sites with electronic cards and high speed scanning just as installed at South Harrow, Northfields etc. Of course the HLJ PMCs are also at Ealing Broadway alongside the EBY ones. The only real problem I can recall there was a slightly twisted roll carrier which only seemed to fit one or two of the five PMCs properly and allow the roll top advance as it should. This usually gave grief on those Friday nights where I had to run round and change the rolls at Acton and all sites west and the Heathrow computer of course. Ealing Common always had problems, I changed PMCs there quite a few times as well as time counters and co-incidence units. It is a relay site and rather unique as it is the only site of its type maintained by Picc Line signal staff. The PMCs are different voltage to the others as I recall and there has been an intermittent time counter fault for as long as I can recall. Myself and many of my former colleagues spent many an hour chasing an open circuit for everything to suddenly spring into life again. Of course once something is working that is all that management want to hear as there is AFAIK no budget for continuing to investigate a non-safety failure beyond the shift once it has cleared by whatever means. Storages were always a problem especially at sites like Acton where the PMCs were often shoved into FCFS. Fuses used to be left out permanently to prevent storages because signalmen found they were unable to knock them down quite often. The faults may have been at the site but could equally have been at Earls Court in the various Warwick Road relay rooms. As for auto reverse not working I cannot recall a site where it didn't although the ability to cross from District to Central was lost (dunno if that persists). There seemed to be some confusion between Wood Lane and Earls Court about the slotting arrangements and when the need arose we used to transfer stock by setting up the correct conditions at site doing it the hard way! Of course some auto reverse sites don't have PMCs at all, just electronics or computer ! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2007 19:50:04 GMT
the auto reverse at embankment does work except for number 3 again no machine but electronic cards
the only bits of the inductors we change now are the links and the inductor sections itself and of course the FR (Frequency Relay)
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 23, 2007 3:38:41 GMT
the only bits of the inductors we change now are the links and the inductor sections itself and of course the FR (Frequency Relay) Yep that was my experience, the last ones I changed were the FR at Boston Manor just east of the starter and two segments and links on the eastbound approach to Park Royal. I remember that one particularly because my assistant was an electrician and he tripped over the cable ripping it from the last segment. We were tight for time but luckily I happened to have a gas soldering with me and was able to repair the damage with just enough time to clear the track. What I remember most about that shift, however, was getting soaked lying on my back trying to get the nuts of the old segments. |
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