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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 17:53:50 GMT
found out today that the shut down this weekend which was supposed to be for so they can install a new set of points at Turnham Green is now cancelled and instead it is happening next weekend but LUL are still going ahead with the closure due to the short notice from metrodebt
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Post by happybunny on Nov 15, 2007 17:55:08 GMT
Really.. so they are going to close, for no reason?? :S hehe makes sense you would think they would replace a bit of track or something at least!
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 15, 2007 18:06:31 GMT
Err... can you imagine the announcements?
"Ladies and gentlemen, there is no service today on the District Line, because... err... well no reason, we just couldn't be arsed to run it today. Have fun on the RRBS".
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Post by happybunny on Nov 15, 2007 18:08:53 GMT
Ahhh at least the Picc's running
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 18:14:06 GMT
Err... can you imagine the announcements? "Ladies and gentlemen, there is no service today on the District Line, because... err... well no reason, we just couldn't be arsed to run it today. Have fun on the RRBS". I know you meant this as tongue in cheek, but passengers will most probably not be told that the work is cancelled, they will be told there is no service due to engineering work.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 15, 2007 18:14:35 GMT
I recall an old thread where the reasons for this sort of thing were discussed (queue Colin), from what I remember it is due to union agreements about giving drivers etc, a set period of notice of shifts.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 18:20:24 GMT
I recall an old thread where the reasons for this sort of thing were discussed (queue Colin), from what I remember it is due to union agreements about giving drivers etc, a set period of notice of shifts. That is correct, but there is a way around it by running an emergency timetable. But that takes working out by managers.
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Post by happybunny on Nov 15, 2007 18:22:27 GMT
DMTs... WORK... shhhhhhhh
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 15, 2007 18:24:29 GMT
Nice to see LU are being straight with the passengers!
Couldn't they ask for volunteers amongst the T'Ops, perhaps with a financial incentive?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 18:27:09 GMT
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Nov 15, 2007 21:18:37 GMT
There is special working on the Picc this weekend, Is it related to this??
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 15, 2007 22:00:03 GMT
Nice to see LU are being straight with the passengers! Couldn't they ask for volunteers amongst the T'Ops, perhaps with a financial incentive? There should be no need really! Once upon a time when LUL was one company there would always be some form of contingency plan. Getting possession of part of a line in what would otherwise be traffic hours for major engineering work would be difficult so even if the work got cancelled the time would not be wasted and other work would be done so that all the effort expended in the planning would not go to waste. With the PPP the same careful planning takes place but with so many more parties involved it is easier for cancellation to occur. On Tube Lines whenever there was a possession for major works we would endeavour to plan other work as well to make best use of the time and access. If that extra work went ahead it was a bonus, if not due to the main work making it impossible little was lost as the staff would do regular maintenance work elsewhere and if the main work was cancelled something would be salvaged from the planning because the bonus work would get done. Of course this didn't always occur, I recall doing routine contact cleaning on the frame at Stanmore one Friday night a few years ago. Some 200 contractors were on site to lift equipment over the fence from the car park to the sidings and trolley it down the track. The entire job centred around a Baldwins crane which had been hired to do the lifting but the crane driver found he had only six shackles, 3 of one tonnage and 3 of another so on H&S grounds he cancelled the lifting so 200 men had a very early night! Obviously someone foots the bill and usually it will be the contractor so I doubt LUL really cares. You have to remember that LUL does not run a public service and has not done so for several years. It is a 'run for profit' organisation and although its raison d'etre is ostensibly to carry fare paying passengers as long as it collects revenue that is really all that matters! Brian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 22:03:03 GMT
With so many start and finish times changed, it isn't even possible to simply run the normal timetable as an emergency timetable, because you won't have the drivers in the required place at the required times. Running an emergency timetable will usually result in even fewer trains than running the engineering timetable. I suppose it may be possible to use your spare drivers to run some limited shuttles from High Street to Richmond and Ealing whilst diverting the otherwise obstructing West Kensington reversers to Parsons Green but it would still be hit and miss.
28 days notice is required for any change to the planned timetable or back again. Obviously drivers have lives too, so you can't simply chop and change their shifts at a whim of Metronet !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 22:34:12 GMT
The problem with these short notice cancellations of engineering work is that the drivers have all been given altered book on and book off times. However, in this case the special working had fewer trains running, meaning that there will be additional spare drivers this weekend, who would normally have "running" duties. So I'm surprised they can't use those extra spares to run say Richmond - High Street shuttles (5 trains could run a 15 minute service).
We always seem to be short of drivers at Earls Court, so it may be a case of local management thinking great, we can have no unplanned cancellations this weekend if we stick to the special working, wheras if we try to run extra trains then our chronic lack of coverage will be exposed again!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 16, 2007 3:23:14 GMT
Let's be honest here though, how many drivers knew 28 days ago that there was 'special working' this weekend? Most drivers don't bother to check until the wednesday onwards during the week before a weekend to see if anythings changed - and given that all the usual duties will/should still be covered, I can't see why it can't be canceled properly and the normal timetable run instead. In any case, book on & off times rarely change that much.
Naturally though, the DMT's are the winners if we still run the 'special working' timetable on account of all those extra spares.
I was actually pondering the amount of 'special working' on the District at the moment - particularly the number of weekends where we've only run up to Whitechapel from Upminster..................if we can 'get away with' a 10 minute frequency on saturdays, why do we run every 5 minutes when the normal timetable is in use? Hmmm.....
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Post by Tubeboy on Nov 16, 2007 9:53:51 GMT
The London Overground trains will still be running, the work between South Acton and Richmond is cancelled..............what will the cattle think of that?.........313s will be running, but the D stock wont be!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2007 16:01:17 GMT
well its deffo still going ahead i loaded the new programme machine rolls on the carriers this morning (they only turned up this morning) so they will go on tonight no matter what happens now now you would of thought metronet could use this to there advantage by doing other work i.e catching up on the already backlog of signal mtce,track mtce but no no one from the lines is doing any work in the affected area over the weekend
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 16, 2007 16:11:41 GMT
Well, if it's too much hassle to run the trains normally, as others have said, why don't they get on with some other work? Rather than inconveniencing everyone for no gain?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2007 18:27:02 GMT
I was actually pondering the amount of 'special working' on the District at the moment - particularly the number of weekends where we've only run up to Whitechapel from Upminster..................if we can 'get away with' a 10 minute frequency on saturdays, why do we run every 5 minutes when the normal timetable is in use? Hmmm..... On those weekends I believe the H&C run extra trains between Whitechapel and Barking.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 17, 2007 1:13:53 GMT
Not always - there's been a number of weekends recently where the point work around Aldgate has been replaced, leaving just the District providing anything east of Whitechapel. The London Overground trains will still be running, the work between South Acton and Richmond is canceled..............what will the cattle think of that?.........313s will be running, but the D stock wont be! Are you sure about that? The T fL website says otherwise - the same shutdown happens next weekend too (24/25), but with LO running.............are you getting mixed up? EDIT: Having delved a little deeper, it appears to depend on what page you look at on the T fL website - some suggest LO is part suspended while other pages suggest it isn't. Quality - no wonder the punters end up confused!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 7:54:03 GMT
I brought the first train out from Ealing Common this morning and ran down the fast. I saw that their is definitely engineering work going on at Turnham Green, so it has not been cancelled as previously stated. EDIT: Having delved a little deeper, it appears to depend on what page you look at on the T fL website - some suggest LO is part suspended while other pages suggest it isn't. Quality - no wonder the punters end up confused! According to the Dot matrices at Gunnersbury last night the Overground is running.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 12:38:11 GMT
well believe me its not happening as they havent got the point machine from westinghouse yet installed on the prefab track which is at ruilslip depot
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 15:08:35 GMT
EDIT: Having delved a little deeper, it appears to depend on what page you look at on the T fL website - some suggest LO is part suspended while other pages suggest it isn't. Quality - no wonder the punters end up confused! We were getting conflicting messages from the information announcing thingy too - when I was in the office before shift started, it said LO work had been cancelled, trains would be running. A few hours later I was in there and a general status message was put out stating that it was closed for engineering work.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 17, 2007 15:52:43 GMT
What tends to happen when the original job is cancelled is heavy maintenance in the same area.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2007 17:38:45 GMT
What tends to happen when the original job is cancelled is heavy maintenance in the same area. That mabe what was happening. The platform areas and track areas between Turnham Green and the Jcn were fenced off and P Way were on the track digging on the WB. The EB line had several Transplant vehicles parked up.
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