mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 17, 2009 11:54:11 GMT
Has anyone got a recent photograph of this signal, please?
It is the WB starter from Ruislip Gardens with a disc for moves into the depot; according to my notes it doesn't have a theatre box for the disc which flicks either upper or lower quadrant for Victor or Mary.
Is this the case or are my notes in error?
Whilst we're in this neck of the woods, where's X1264, please? (and why is it RUGX1264)
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Post by Harsig on Sept 17, 2009 12:46:22 GMT
Has anyone got a recent photograph of this signal, please? It is the WB starter from Ruislip Gardens with a disc for moves into the depot; according to my notes it doesn't have a theatre box for the disc which flicks either upper or lower quadrant for Victor or Mary. Is this the case or are my notes in error? Whilst we're in this neck of the woods, where's X1264, please? (and why is it RUGX1264) Surely your notes are wrong. A quick glance at the current traffic controller's diagrams shows that there is only one shunt route from the westbound platform and that is up to signal RUG1256 on No 77 Road. This latter shunt signal is the one that routes you to either Victor or Mary. |
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 17, 2009 13:22:35 GMT
That's what I thought too - but for the route calling my notes say that: RUG1262 cleared: Upper Quadrantpoints 1306/1307 reverse (into what was Road No 77) [1] points 1300/02 normal - road set into Mary but RUG1256 'ON' Lower Quadrantpoints 1306/1307 reverse (into what was Road No 77) points 1300/1303 reverse - road set into Victor but RUG1256 'ON' Clearly RUG1256 has the theatre box and routes into either Victor or Mary; what is possibly unusual is the disc on RUG1262 clearing in either the upper or lower quadrant, depending on the route set in advance of RUG1256. That's what I'd like confirmed  as I'm chasing a possibly mythical upper quadrant FO disc somewhere on the network. [1] which I think is now properly only the headshunt. Scrap that, Road 77 is still Road 77. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 17:04:00 GMT
Surely your notes are wrong. A quick glance at the current traffic controller's diagrams shows that there is only one shunt route from the westbound platform and that is up to signal RUG1256 on No 77 Road. This latter shunt signal is the one that routes you to either Victor or Mary. This is correct. There are only two signaled moves from RUG 1262. Route 1 is to West Ruislip with route 2 being the Shunt into 77Rd. There is a 'RS' visual indicator box on the signal post for RUG 1262 which could easily be mistaken for a route indicator. RUGX 1264 does not exist as there are no X signals on the Central Line. However auto signals are often re-number during weekend closures/engineering works to protect possessions. |
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 17, 2009 23:09:35 GMT
Surely your notes are wrong. A quick glance at the current traffic controller's diagrams shows that there is only one shunt route from the westbound platform and that is up to signal RUG1256 on No 77 Road. This latter shunt signal is the one that routes you to either Victor or Mary. This is correct. There are only two signaled moves from RUG 1262. Route 1 is to West Ruislip with route 2 being the Shunt into 77Rd. There is a 'RS' visual indicator box on the signal post for RUG 1262 which could easily be mistaken for a route indicator. RUGX 1264 does not exist as there are no X signals on the Central Line. However auto signals are often re-number during weekend closures/engineering works to protect possessions. In which case it would be PNX1264 rather than RUGX1264 |
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 18, 2009 7:20:35 GMT
In which case it would be PNX1264 rather than RUGX1264 Spot on. Which is why I asked the question  although I have seen reference to HOL X4358, MAA X3651, MAA X3657, NOA X2363 as well as RUG X1264. I know that there are only 2 possible moves from RUG1262, and seemingly 5 possible aspects: Green, White, Red (all with disc 'ON'), disc 'OFF' Upper Quadrant, disc 'OFF' Lower Quadrant. There are also two Route Secure visuals - RS and SDG RS which, according to my notes is a separate box (unlike MAA3656 which a combined shunt and route secure), just to add to the complication of possible aspect combinations. Has anyone seen RUG1262 disc 'OFF' in the upper quadrant [top left to bottom right]? |
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Post by Harsig on Sept 18, 2009 9:30:42 GMT
Having now had a chance to refer to a documet at work I find that it certainly matches what your notes say about the shunt signal on RUG1262. I must say I'm very surprised because firstly I can't see why there is any need to indicate the position of 1302/1303 points at that signal and secondly because I'm surprised that such a 'non standard' indication is permitted particularly because, to my mind at least' the two off indications are not sufficiently distinctive from each other to make the distinction obvious.
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Post by londonse on Sept 18, 2009 14:33:27 GMT
Having now had a chance to refer to a documet at work I find that it certainly matches what your notes say about the shunt signal on RUG1262. I must say I'm very surprised because firstly I can't see why there is any need to indicate the position of 1302/1303 points at that signal and secondly because I'm surprised that such a 'non standard' indication is permitted particularly because, to my mind at least' the two off indications are not sufficiently distinctive from each other to make the distinction obvious. For those of us who are not as expert on the subject as you, can you expand what document and any other breakdown regarding the signalling would be good. The Central line signalling system seems to be a lot different to most LU. Paul |
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Post by londonse on Sept 18, 2009 14:35:09 GMT
Has anyone got a recent photograph of this signal, please? It is the WB starter from Ruislip Gardens with a disc for moves into the depot; according to my notes it doesn't have a theatre box for the disc which flicks either upper or lower quadrant for Victor or Mary. Is this the case or are my notes in error? Whilst we're in this neck of the woods, where's X1264, please? (and why is it RUGX1264) Out of interest where did you get the reference for X1264 and RUG1264? Paul |
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 19, 2009 4:51:51 GMT
In which case it would be PNX1264 rather than RUGX1264 Spot on. Which is why I asked the question although I have seen reference to HOL X4358, MAA X3651, MAA X3657, NOA X2363 as well as RUG X1264. I know that there are only 2 possible moves from RUG1262, and seemingly 5 possible aspects: Green, White, Red (all with disc 'ON'), disc 'OFF' Upper Quadrant, disc 'OFF' Lower Quadrant. There are also two Route Secure visuals - RS and SDG RS which, according to my notes is a separate box (unlike MAA3656 which a combined shunt and route secure), just to add to the complication of possible aspect combinations. Has anyone seen RUG1262 disc 'OFF' in the upper quadrant [top left to bottom right]? If Lou7675 says there are no X signals on the Central line I am wondering where your references originated. However, one would expect an X signal to exist on each approach to a controlled area as the last auto stick so your list would appear to be only partial. I am wondering if these 'signals' might exist as nothing more than simple marker posts. |
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Post by Harsig on Sept 19, 2009 8:43:55 GMT
If Lou7675 says there are no X signals on the Central line I am wondering where your references originated. However, one would expect an X signal to exist on each approach to a controlled area as the last auto stick so your list would appear to be only partial. I am wondering if these 'signals' might exist as nothing more than simple marker posts. I can find nothing of any sort numbered 1264 on the current diagrams. I've therefore been working on the assumption that it might have been one of many signals installed at the time of re-signalling to maintain headways while the line was still operated in tripcock mode but subsequently removed (and replaced by block marker boards numbered differently) as the line completed the transition to ATO/ATP mode. The question therefore is 'How old is the reference MRFS has to X1264?' As and example MAA X3657 which MRFS referred to above has now been removed and replaced by block marker board 3609 slightly further in advance. Likewise MAA X3651 has been replaced by Block Marker Board 3517. |
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 19, 2009 10:46:02 GMT
The question therefore is 'How old is the reference MRFS has to X1264?' As and example MAA X3657 which MRFS referred to above has now been removed and replaced by block marker board 3609 slightly further in advance. Likewise MAA X3651 has been replaced by Block Marker Board 3517. Email conversation with a fellow signalling enthusiast, who is equally as puzzled, because these X references are apparently in the new edition of the Line Supplement; which AFAIAA was published with effect from Monday just gone. |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Sept 19, 2009 11:51:05 GMT
Spot on. Which is why I asked the question although I have seen reference to HOL X4358, MAA X3651, MAA X3657, NOA X2363 as well as RUG X1264. I know that there are only 2 possible moves from RUG1262, and seemingly 5 possible aspects: Green, White, Red (all with disc 'ON'), disc 'OFF' Upper Quadrant, disc 'OFF' Lower Quadrant. There are also two Route Secure visuals - RS and SDG RS which, according to my notes is a separate box (unlike MAA3656 which a combined shunt and route secure), just to add to the complication of possible aspect combinations. Has anyone seen RUG1262 disc 'OFF' in the upper quadrant [top left to bottom right]? If Lou7675 says there are no X signals on the Central line I am wondering where your references originated. However, one would expect an X signal to exist on each approach to a controlled area as the last auto stick so your list would appear to be only partial. I am wondering if these 'signals' might exist as nothing more than simple marker posts. They no longer exist - all 'X' signals and repeaters were removed when each section of line underwent the transition from tripcock to ATP. The line supplement is incorrect / out of date in this respect - just like up until recently it referred to 10b points at Loughton, and a speed restriction near LW3 signal at Epping - LW3 being the home signal from North Weald! |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Sept 19, 2009 13:35:09 GMT
However, one would expect an X signal to exist on each approach to a controlled area as the last auto stick so your list would appear to be only partial. That requirement has't been around for a good few years! It was only ever enforced for sites which had a global site release and originated to cover the eventuality that a Train Operator applies the rule past an auto remaining at danger, then proceeds to approach lock the first controlled signal. Since the advent of an automatic release the need for an X signal is unnecessary. Regarding RUG1262, the OP may relate to the days before the track layout at RUG was modified. |
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Sept 19, 2009 20:36:26 GMT
Talking of the New Line Supplement, it Say's the Greenford Bay Road has 3rd rail electrification  I think the Bods at 55 Broadway, who write this stuff need to get out of the office more |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Sept 19, 2009 21:49:09 GMT
Not just the bay road, apparently the whole line between North Acton and West Ruilsip has too!
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 20, 2009 14:54:36 GMT
Regarding RUG1262, the OP may relate to the days before the track layout at RUG was modified. Well, the OP was about the current situation with Road 77 extended to meet up with the platform at RUG, rather than any reworking of the depot fan. |
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Sept 20, 2009 21:25:08 GMT
In that circumstance there is only one option - you have to go onto one of the reception roads (can't remember which one) up to RUG 1256 (the other Multi-SPAD one in the area).
You only get the choice of Victor or Mary if you're shunting, IIRC. The reason I wondered about the old arrangement is because some of the cabling for the old layout was still in place earlier this year!
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as I'm chasing a possibly mythical upper quadrant FO disc somewhere on the network.
although I have seen reference to HOL X4358, MAA X3651, MAA X3657, NOA X2363 as well as RUG X1264.
